1. WOW. Very illustrative. We are worse than CUBA! and Russia. and IRAN!

    Everything here is illegal and even if it’s not, you could go to jail for it.

    This should show that we are indisputably a police state.

  2. Lets get rid of victimless crimes and watch these statistics drop dramatically as our situation improves tremendously.

  3. Of course, it is not fair just say the US has the highest rate in the world and leave it at that. The truth is, the rate various depending on what part of America you are in. It tends to be highest in the parts of America with the most cops and corruption. LA and other Southern states stick out while New England states like NH and ME tend to be the lowest.

    See here for the state rates, http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p04.pdf

    Some highlights- NH has the lowest rate and the fewest total females in prison at 119
    ME has the lowest overall incarceration rate. LA has the highest rate, with 816 inmates per 100,000 people.

    I think it is also important to point out the NH has the 2nd fewest amount of cops per capita whereas LA has the highest amount of pigs per capita.

  4. Mitchell, getting rid of victimless crime laws should help. ME has the least harsh pot laws in the nation (well, maybe AK does, or didn’t they just get rid of them?) and it has the lowest rate of incarceration in America. NH citizens tend to have more civil liberties than anywhere else in America and it has the lowest rate in incarceration for women and the 4th lowest rate, overall.

    But, I think reducing the amount of cops is also important…

  5. Interesting link Keith. I think the cops per capita is a good general rule, but doesn’t always hold up. In Chicago, I can’t look out the window without seeing at least a couple police cars. I think the people here have just become accustomed to not having rights, and they probably all know the appropriate bribe by now (I’ve seen two cops taking bribes in the last month- from what I gather the appropriate bribe is about 10% of a day’s business).

    In many ways, cops are like a standing army- bound to get into trouble if they have nothing to do.

  6. Some of the countries with lower rates than the US can be explained. They have low recidivism rates. An example is Saudi Arabia. If you cut the hands off a thief, he cannot steal. If he does figure out how to steal again, you behead him. No prison time, therefore not a statistic. I studied statistics and probability theory in college in depth and the chart means absolutely nothing other than a propaganda prop.

    Incarcerated Cubans may be disproportionally high political prisoners. Do we know how many executions are carried out thereby eliminating prison time? Again, no science or math behind this graph, therefore a worthless pictorial

  7. Officially, China has 117 per 100,000. Although you have to remember that China is not honest about this kinda stuff, some people think it is 10 times that or more.

  8. I studied statistics and probability theory in college in depth and the chart means absolutely nothing other than a propaganda prop.

    Julian, it sounds like you’re more of a propoganda prop. It’s true, that people have fewer rights in Saudi Arabia and Cuba, but what does that tell you when you have to defend the U.S. by saying in effect, “Oh, well, at least we’re not as bad as those countries because we don’t cut people’s hands off when they steal.”

    When comparing the U.S. to countries such as Canada, the Netherlands, Switzerland and other Western countries, there’s only one thing to conclude: that a large part of the U.S. is a police/prison state. Personally, I moved to Seattle because it’s one of the freest cities in the country. I wouldn’t be caught dead in the Deep South or in that fascist hellhole called Oklahoma.

  9. Rolf, mate! Crikey, what a story. All here are pretty brave, save me. I’m lucky, I’m in Oz, not the US(gul)A(g). You guys are getting your URLs analysed by the NSA and the list is growin’! When you hear the phrase “Papieres bitte!” y’all motherfuckin’ freeze, ya know? I think I read a story on Capitol Hill Blue about a State lawmaker who increased penalties for drink driver offenses and he advertised his law practice in MSM as ‘specialist’ in drink drive cases! Strewth. How many pollies invest in private prison building, one wonders?

  10. LeRoy

    You are correct. Most of the US is a police/prison state. Since Seattle is so great, I am moving there today. I am ashamed that I was born in the south and will beat the shit out of myself for having done so.

    Maybe Seattle and San Francisco can link up and become a new country. Good luck.

  11. LeRoy

    Was it your father and mother that spit on me in 1968 when I returned from Vietnam and went out the front gate at Ft. Lewis trying to get home? Maybe they were the ones passing out Mao’s Little Red Book trying to convert me to Chinese style communism. There were some anarchists there too. That whole area was a zoo during the 60’s and really hated not only the military, but individual soldiers.

    I bet it has not changed a bit other that it is more radicalized and more anti-military and anti everything American. Seattle bumps Canada, why not just annex yourself to Canada. Problem solved. Now you are not a part of the god forsaken US.

    Ever spent much time in the deep south? I have and have spent time in your armpit city. I will take Savannah, GA over Seattle, WA any day. You are just like all other socialists, narrow minded bigots trying to force your belief system on the rest of us. I was there and know what I am talking about, you two bit insulting twit.

  12. Julian: You bring up valid points on low recidivism and prison population make-up.

    A large percentage of the prison population in the U.S. is for drug possession or other victimless crimes that should still give us pause. Are these not political as well?

    I think corporal punishment (fire branding or chopping fingers off) is a route we should be debating for career criminals who choose to keep returning to a life of crime (when someone has 5 theft convictions, maybe it’s time to protect society by permanently branding them a thief).

  13. Stephen

    Chopping fingers off? You are not making friends with the libertarian “bleeding heart” element. They believe anything is acceptable in society.

    I have even heard it said at an LP meeting that they cannot understand what all the uproar is about over pedophilia. Some even want to eliminate laws against it. Sometimes I cannot comprehend who the hell is within the libertarian movement. It is just too radical and I have considered exiting but then believe that would not be the right move because someone needs to challenge the pedophiles, etc. who are disguising themselves as libertarians for their one issue agendas.

    Now someone will jump my case and call me a neocon or nazi because I have lines in the sand I will not and cannot cross.

  14. GreginOz,

    U.S. Prisons are breeding grounds for new Libertarians.

    About half, if not more, of the people have been convicted of victimless crimes.

    Basically, there are about a million new Libertarians ready to get out of prison or jail in the next few years.

    Remember, a Libertarian is a republicrat who’s been arrested.

  15. Julian,

    You must be filled with a lot of anger to resort to such petty flame throwing. This is the kind of right wing hatred that is destroying America – similar to the idea that we should disfigure people who are caught stealing. Libertarians, more than anyone else, believe that the punishment should fit the crime and that restitution should be paid to the victims. If there is no victim, there is no crime. If you don’t believe this, you shouldn’t be calling yourself a libertarian.

    Before you go calling me a socialist you should know who you’re attacking. I am a supporter of free markets and an advocate of ethical capitalism. I am surrounded by far-left liberals here in Seattle, and I find them extremely open minded and friendly. The ones I’ve met do not support big government programs but are more focused on corporate-government collusion and corruption. This country would be in far better shape if the rest of the country was more like my beloved Seattle.

  16. Julian,

    I’d like to get back to the focus of this post. As I’m sure you know, a very large percentage of prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent victimless “crimes” – mostly drug offenses. Don’t you agree that it would be a huge step in the right direction to free all these people and also legalize drugs? Answering this question will be a significant indicator of how you feel about freedom and individual liberty.

  17. I am really concerned about the growing minority population in our prisions. Almost half of the prision population in the US is black. Most who come out can’t get a JOB in the civilian world because just about everything illegal is now considered a FELON. Companies will not hire felons. My job won’t-and there are few minorities working at my job and we are always shorthanded. I ask my boss why a certain person wasn’t hired and he says that because our company will not hire felons. We need to restructure our criminal system where we are prosecuting people more for misdemeanors instead of ruining their lives with felonies. Corporate AmeriKKKa is evil! Black communities have 3 times the unemployment rate than white communities. It’ll be higher when illegal immigrants keep coming to America. The corporations will hire them before they hire a black person because they will demand less. A wonderful and fabulous way to exclude blacks from the Amerikkkan dream?

  18. Chris Bennett: I think a major problem within the black community is the fear of guns by law-abiders. Somehow they’ve bought into the Democrat utopia that guns are evil, which further opens them up to crime when only the criminals are packing.

    The reality is that crime creates poverty. Once law-abiding blacks stop being victimized by the opportunity criminals that lurk around them and realize they can greatly decrease crime simply by excercising their second amendment rights (yes, I am advocating that black people buy some damn guns!), I’d bet that violent crime rates would plunge.

  19. The whole thing about minorities in prisons in an intresting subject. I always believed it was due to racist cops until I worked at a convenience store while I was in undergrad.

    Although 90% of the customers were white, only one white committed a minor crime. There was also one hispanic who committed a minor crime. To my dismay, there were 116 crimes involving african-americans, including 12 armed robberies and one shooting that involved 3 attempted murders (me being one of the people that was shot at).

    While my experience is small in the whole picture, I am starting to think that corrupt cops are not the whole problem, that it is possible that american born blacks do commit more crimes. Why? I don’t know. Maybe its because racism prevents them from getting jobs and forces them into crime? Maybe a form a Learned helplessness left over from the first part of the century?

  20. Leroy

    You obviously have not read any of my previous comments about the drug wars. I support legalizing and making available ALL drugs, prescription or otherwise with no constraints whatsoever. It is you, not the government, that should determine whether you want to screw your life and family up abusing drugs. I don’t care. I also believe anyone in prison for drug possession or sales (as long as violence was not involved) should be immediately released.

    I am normally not in favor of taxpayers paying for any program to benefit another person at the expense of others. However, my exception is I will willingly pay the taxes for the government to provide, FREE, all the drugs an addict wants to use. If he overdoses, so be it. Good riddance.

    I don’t use drugs, alcohol or smoke but really don’t give a shit if you screw up your family and life using and abusing as long as you don’t screw with my family. If you do, I will exercise my second amendment rights against you.

  21. Leroy (continued)

    Turn loose all those involved in moral terpitude issues as long as they are nonviolent and between consenting adults. If it is forced on children, then kill the bastards doing it. Empty the prisons. In return, every citizen should have the right to freely buy and carry weapons of most any type and size for protection. If the violent criminals expect most everyone to be armed, they will be too stressed to be a problem.

    I also don’t care if you or any member of your family copulates with whomever or whatever or how it occurs. I will again exercise my Second Amendment rights against you if you try to force it on me or my family. Who cares if you consort with whores and contract STD’s. Pass it on to your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend or all of them. I don’t care. Your moral behavior is your business.

    Leave me and my family alone and I will leave you alone. Get in my face and I will double screw you. How about that for libertarian beliefs.

  22. Well said Julian. We obviously both care very much about freedom even though we come at it from different philosophies and points of view. The important thing is we both think government should let peaceful people alone and that people have a right to do what they want as long as they don’t violate the equal rights of others. Therefore I must call a truce and concentrate my energy on those who truly do work against freedom and individualism.

    Best Regards,