Libertarians need to…

It seems every election cycle, we have a bunch of speculation about what exactly Libertarians need to do to get elected, but we keep falling short of that goal (notwithstanding my own views on the matter of why third parties get screwed). So, based on a search formula meme being thrown around (search phrase in Google, display lots of contrary results, laugh at stupidity of Internet), I present “libertarians need to …

  • Libertarians need to embrace regulation of commerce.
  • Libertarians need to reach out to the left.
  • Libertarians need to recognize America can have a vital interest in the freedom of other countries and people.
  • Libertarians need to push the fact that people have rights.
  • Libertarians need to be unafraid to announce themselves as libertarians.
  • Libertarians need to acknowledge the natural place of moralism in American life.
  • Libertarians need to pop some viagra, and take a chance on romance with the Dems.
  • Libertarians need to advocate some type of taxes in order to be relevant.
  • Libertarians need to listen to their hearts and answer to the concerns that liberals have expressed.
  • Libertarians need to find a young man who has public speaking skills equivalent to those of the major parties.
  • Libertarians need to be as sly as the lost who lead us.
  • Libertarians need to take a gamble and kick the Republicans in the teeth.
  • Libertarians need to stop attacking institutions like the World Bank that cross national boundaries.
  • Libertarians need to be asked some hard questions.
  • Libertarians need to reframe the “compassion debate.”
  • Libertarians need to be better educated in politics.
  • Libertarians need to get serious.
  • Libertarians need to promote the myth of a higher law.
  • Libertarians need to consider values, not just actions.
  • Libertarians need to “change their brand.”
  • Libertarians need to recognize that we are – and almost certainly always will be – political outcasts.
  • Libertarians need to take advantage of the broken state of the Democratic Party.
  • Libertarians need to get their heads out of their asses and become more Republican.
  • Libertarians need to win the intellectual debate.
  • Libertarians need to dial back the fringe element.
  • Libertarians need to throw as much sand as possible in the gears of the state.

Add your own one-liner in the comments.

173 Comments
  1. Odd how so many of those comments could be reduced to “Libertarians need to stop being libertarian.”

  2. Libertarians need to stop dressing up like monuments (or anything else equally sillY) when entering a debate.

    I do agree with Mr Quick. we need to embrace regulation? bullshit. Some I do like.

  3. I don’t understand– how can libertarians “reach out to the left” yet “get their heads out of their asses and become more Republican”, and then also “kick Republicans in the teeth”?

  4. Libertarians need to focus on issues that at least 1/3 of Americans already agree with us on. {focus means emphasize, it doesn’t mean we should abandon all other principles that only, say, 5% agree with.]

  5. libertarians need to stop worrying about what everyone else wants them to do and just champion liberty. the rest of the world needs to relaize what damn fools they’re being when they vote for pseudo-tyrants

  6. this is a add on to the suggestion by Watt.

    Libertarians need to be more active on collage campuses

  7. Libertarians need to stockpile firearms and ammo to prepare for the next american revolution!!!

  8. libertarians need to have more hot love-munky sex. And find a cure for brain cancer so my ass dont die!

  9. Libertarians need an image makeover that’ll attract more voters to their fold.

    Libertarians need a flashy multi-million-dollar media campaign for themselves, aimed at younger voters. The prospect of true limited government that’ll stay out of your bedroom and entertainment center should be attractive enough, if given a hip MTV-style treatment. And to accomplish this…

    Libertarians need more multi-million-dollar contributors. I wish I was one of them.

    Lastly, Libertarians need a new logo with some kind of animal mascot. The Republican elephant and Democrat donkey are well ingrained in our pop culture, and there’s nothing that political cartoonists can conjure up to embody the Libertarian camp. No wonder the party gets ignored. I suggest something like a cat… they’re independent-minded and low-maintenance, which meshes well with the Libertarian view on government.

  10. Jason,

    The post intro says this is a list based on a “search formula meme”. Effectively a collection of “Libertarians need to…” one-liners. Obviously not all libertarians (or libertrain critics, for that matter) actually agree what Libertarians need to do and, hence, you get conflicting ideas on th list.

  11. Libertarians need to be more pragmatic. They also should focus on running candidates for local and state elections. Once there are several states with 10-20% of the state congress represented bt libertarians, then worry about national elections.

    In the meantime, vote for the most libertarian candidate in all elections. Make them tell you why a libertarian should vote fo rthem.

  12. Libertarians need to quit talking about what they need to do, and DO SOMETHING other than just talk.

  13. I agree w/the comments suggesting that libertarians appeal to youth. While I think it is cliche to say this in reference to political parties, I think libertarian positions (properly expressed — any by this,I mean expressed as pragmatic policies, not dogmatic philosophies) resonate with young people. But then, there is that pesky two-party system……

  14. David, I agree that Libertarianism resonates with the young, but I think that dogma is actually what the young (by which I mean college-ageish) want and need. Ever notice how many college age marxists there are? Youth are extreme and single minded. They also still believe they can have all (or most of) the answers. Dogma is good, if it’s backed up and not just propoganda.

    And I’m 17, so I should know. ;)

  15. Libertarians need to realize that even though some do not think EXACTLY like they do They may still be libertarian.

  16. To the whole youth issue -Borah- yes i have noticed how many younr marxist, however it is easly less than 10%. However that should not be as big as concern as attracting the the overwhemling majority of students who don’t give a dam, or the ones who have become disillioned with the repubicrats.

    Focsuing on youth is more than just staying out of their bedrooms and entertainment centers, though it is a good start. It requeries being savy about what young adults care about. One example, the liberatiran party at KU (all ten of us) are going to start focuing on the government invading peoples privacy with regards to facebook. Sounds like a petty issue, right? maybe, but teenagers/young adults are very proctective about thier online privacy. It is shit like that the LP party needs to foucs on (in targeted cases) in order to win the youth over

  17. oh yea, a LP animal? i like the idea, though I can hear people here bitching about “how they don’t want to become just like the other parties”. even though adding a mascot would be of use, and does not mean we are like the repubilcrats. but what animal?

  18. Libertarians need to consolidate our resources and focus on getting 1 or 2 state-level candidates elected each election. From there, it will be much easier to not only get press coverage, but to convince people that a vote for a Libertarian is not wasted.

    We don’t have hundreds of millions of dollars like the Dems and Repubs, but if you combine all the money donated to Libertarian campaigns in this election alone, it isn’t a small number. Imagine what we could do if all of that money was funneled into a couple intelligently picked state level races with quality candidates similar to Guthrie, Bell, Hayes and others running…

  19. For an example, see this comment:

    /2006/10/31/rex-bell-advertising-montage/#comment-179007

  20. “Libertarians need to procreate before socialists outbreed us.”

    Socialists aren’t spectacular procreators, so that shouldn’t be too difficult.

  21. Libertarians need to quit whining about how poorly they are treated, and get to work at building solid, effective state chapter organizations.

  22. Libertarians need to replace the “serentiy prayer”

    “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.”

    with something more proactive and positive:

    “God grant me the wisdom to know what needs changing;
    the courage to try, no matter what the odds; and the tenacity to never give up.”

  23. As long as we describe libertarian potentialities expressed as “need,” we will forever deserve to lose elections.

    Words count, in politics especially! The American electorate is never going to respond positively to such pessimistc and negative connotations evoked by the use of the word, “need.” Want a practical example of how “need” negates freedom, at the cost of 80 million dead?

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” – Karl Marx

    If “need” motivates libertarianism, I’ll stop voting for libertarians.

    ‘Be free.’

  24. Libertarians need to listen to whatever our political opponents say – especially if they have a blog.

    kcjerith – if that’s ten ACTIVE members, you own us Rutgers Libertarians.

  25. Since when did ‘Politician’ become a job!? It used to be about putting your time in and serving your country. Now we have lifetime employees. Sad thing… most of us will NEVER have that kind of job security… ever.

  26. We have to find and grip reality before we can do anything else. We seem to be stuck somewhere else.

  27. if “need” motivates libertarinism, I’ll stop voting libertartarians. – a Douist

    Douist, I need to live in country that were the government doesn’t enter my bedroom, computer, or my home. I need a government that is separte from the private sector and not intertwind with it, I need to be able to live my life based on my values. I think you mistook the point of this exercise, it helps people brainstorm various aspects of libertrainsm. It helps refocus the members of the party on what is important, and helps generate discussion.
    You cliam that the elecotrate would never respond postively to the use of the word need, you may or may not be right. However that is not the point of this discussion, and I doubt the “elctroate” will ever have a clue we had it. The Marx quote is way out of line, that is not what this discussion is about.

    D Worden, I stand correted. 15 members (on email list) 5 or six active.

  28. How about fuck those ideas, and no.

    I’m a libertarian, not some libertarian that’s abandoned libertarianism.

  29. Libertarians need to get off of the globalist New World Order bandwagon and worry more about our own citizens rather then focusing on letting in everyone else in the world who wants to come here and vote for big government Democrats!

    One world Corporate/government globalism is NOT real capitalism, it’s fascism…learn the difference.

    The Constitution Party is now the third largest party for a reason, wake up before the rest of your party defects!

  30. The Constitution Party is now the third largest party for a reason,

    You mean in voter registrations? Because they aren’t in votes, candidates, or any other measure. And the vast majority of their registered voters think they are non-partisan due to state party names like American Independent. Nice trick, that.

    Speaking of things the LP needs to do, it needs to learn how to play clever tricks like that.

  31. Statements from the top I agree with:

    Libertarians need to reach out to the left.

    Libertarians need to listen to their hearts and answer to the concerns that liberals have expressed.

    Libertarians need to take a gamble and kick the Republicans in the teeth.

    Libertarians need to reframe the “compassion debate.”

    Libertarians need to be better educated in politics.

    Libertarians need to throw as much sand as possible in the gears of the state.

    more:

  32. Libertarians need to be more active on collage campuses

    Very true!

    Libertarians need to quit blaming the product for lousy marketing.

    Also true.

  33. Some Libertarians need to quit attacking and criticizing Congressman Ron Paul!!!
    (You know who you are! Don’t be a dumbass!)
    Grow up!
    Ron Paul has been a great voice of libertarianism so bother to support him!!!
    Libertarians need to be MORE pragmatic in support of others who declare libertarian ideals but are not running under ‘the official Party label.’
    and be LESS pragmatic when it comes to the platform, beliefs and ideals!!!
    You dont water down the platform into a soggy pablum that your average Republicrat grazes on. Its not there to suit their tastes or pander to them.
    Libertarians need to get back to a previous Platform.
    The Libertarian Party needs to put all money into a very few races.
    Whats better? Giving a million candidates $1.00 or one candidate a Million dollars? The Party should be much more creative to get media attention.
    The US Constitution is the Law of the Land, but I have yet to see a commercial that clearly shows why and how Republicrats are violating it!!

  34. libertarians need to point out and hammer away with this simple fact:

    Republicans want to use government to force people to be moral.
    Democrats want to use government to force people to be charitable.
    Libertarians want to use government to protect and preserve the individual Rights of everyone.

    Republicans say morality is governments business.
    Democrats say charity is governments business.
    Libertarians say both are the individuals business.

  35. The Libertarian Partys website graphics SUCK!!!
    The old one was better! (That one sucked too but not so much)

    The Libertarian Partys Mascot should be the Buffalo!
    A Native animal that was almost driven to extinction but has made a comeback!
    Yes its a ‘herd’ animal but thats because theres strength in numbers.
    It also represents the plank regarding Native American lands and honoring government signed treaties!
    Its smaller than the Elephant but larger than the Donkey.
    And its a cool animal!!!

  36. Post less and work on campaigns, donate more money to campaigns, quit whining, earn some good media, quit sweating RLC vs. hardcore, read books on how to run a campaign, Have fun and get laid more often :)

  37. Libertarians need to reach out to ethnic minorities.

    Libertarians need to realize that angry middle aged white males aren’t always right.

    Libertarians need to stop fighting among themselves.

    Libertarians need to learn how to be inclusive NOT exclusive.

    Libertarians need to hire ME as their campaign manager when they run for office next time!

  38. Not that would be useful to spend to much time on the whole “party animal” thing. Being from Kansas I would not mind the buffalo, I think it the state animal. I think an animal that does not do well in captivatiy would be a good one, something from north america, and nothing stupid (like a opposum, or squirel). The free state project uses a porcupine. that is not to bad.

  39. Libertarians need to stop wasting scarce party funds to cry, blame and sabotage other Libertarians’ efforts and instead put the blame where it belongs: The State, and realize that’s who we need to fight. (You know who you are.)

  40. Some of us think a very small ‘state’ is absolutely needed. The level of reduction which is immaterial. It’s the fact that you want to reduce it and it’s control and power over people thats the important thing.

  41. Libertarians need to stop being so idealistic and learn to compromise with free(er) market liberals and anti-authoritarian conservatives.

    Libertarians also need to fundraise and start getting their ideas national attention in the next presidential election.

  42. Libos need to buy guns
    Libos need to buy ammo
    Libos need to do target practise
    Libos need to respond to “No Knock” raids with deadly force
    Libos need to role play violence as an alternative to writing respectful letters to the very authorities that have imprisoned them
    Libos need to prepare bolt holes
    Libos need to practise http://www.agorism.com
    Strewth, mebbe Libos need to be Revolutionaries and not fat, geeky nerds sitting at a PC typing this shit!

  43. We need to take a hint from the civil rights movement and stage sit ins. I am sure this idea is going to recieve a large amount of ridcule, but i think it is a viable option. Violence is only an option when no other options are left

  44. We libertarians need to start a well funded Libertarian News Network on cable, cause no one in the mainstream media has a clue.

  45. Libertarians need to attract more celebrities to the movement, even run one for President.

    Uncle Kracker is our newest libertarian celebrity, thanks to a MI libertarian Republican candidate.

    Story at http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

    And O’Reilly was heard to call himself a “libertarian” the other night on his show.

    Also, the other dude at Comedy Central, the geeky serious looking guy, came out of the closet and called himself a “libertarian” too the other night.

  46. Libertarians need to appeal to the a huge percentage of the population who consider themselves “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” but have no party to call home.

    Libertarians need to become the “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” party that the American people so desperately desire.

    Libertarians need to leave the LP and start a “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” party encompassing all (most) of these points listed above. Leave the all tin foil hat-wearing anarchist types behind, they’re holding us down.

  47. Libertarians need to let the “Republican-lite” empty suits walk out of the party and go back to the R’s where they belong.

  48. Libertarians need to recruit more pro-wrestlers as celebrity endorsers.

    Libertarians need to focus on the gay wiccan priest vote.

    Libertarians need to raise awareness of the Moon Treaty.

    Libertarians need to focus more resources on unwinnable presidential contests.

    Libertarians need to get better at whining when we don’t get press coverage for our paper candidates.

    Libertarians need to apply Total Quantity Management to campaigns and candidates.

    Libertarians need to spend more time nit-picking over Robert’s Rules of Order.

    Libertarians need to be more creative when insulting each other. “Retard” is getting old.

    Libertarians need to deny that insanity exists (a la Thomas Szaz).

    Libertarians need to diss charity (a la Ayn Rand, Doug Casey).

    Libertarians need to blame America first for the world’s problems.

  49. Libertarians need to leave the LP and start a “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” party encompassing all (most) of these points listed above. Leave the all tin foil hat-wearing anarchist types behind, they’re holding us down.

    Umm, the tin foil hat-wearing types tend to think Libertarians are the nuts. You are preaching inclusion, but you want to exclude a very large, prime group of potential libertarians. The 9/11 truth movement alone is many, many times larger than the LP. And that is not including the many other truth mmovements out there…

    Yea, that’ll get them there Libertarians elected… become so moderate that we are identical to the Rep/Dems.

    Idiots.

  50. More stuff I agree with:

    Libertarians need to reach out to ethnic minorities.

    Libertarians need to realize that angry middle aged white males aren’t always right.

    “Have fun and get laid more often”

    Everything from GreginOz # 65

    but also: “We need to take a hint from the civil rights movement and stage sit ins.”

    On the other hand, if post 10 then post 70.

    “And O’Reilly was heard to call himself a “libertarian” the other night on his show.” LOL, he’s the furthest thing possible from a libertarian. The guy on Comedy Central is Stephen Colbert, good score!

    Libertarians need to let the “Republican-lite” empty suits walk out of the party and go back to the R’s where they belong. Also true!

    Another true fact, “The 9/11 truth movement alone is many, many times larger than the LP. And that is not including the many other truth movements out there”¦”

    Libertarians need to stop being NSGOP bootlickers and call for IMPEACHING BUSH already!

  51. Libertarians need to find a young FEMALE who has public speaking skills equivalent to those of the major parties and looks really-hot (and then they need to all be convinced she’s not gonna sleep with them, but she’s still worth-supporting).

  52. Mike Nelson — interesting point regarding that item you referenced:

    The early Church *DID* become moderate, and watered down its “hard-core” messages. That’s *WHY* it succeeded. It continued the tradition of comprimise to suit locals for centuries.

    Ever heard of Saint Brigid?

  53. Libertarians need to stop running manifestly unqualified candidates for offices they cannot win.

    It’s depressing how many people know nothing about our philosophy. But what is more depressing is that these same people, when asked what comes to mind when they think about the LP, say: “You always lose.”

    Libertarians need to focus on winning small, local races, building up a farm team of experienced, qualified candidates, and then and only then running candidates at the county, state, and federal level.

    I know some state Parties have already adopted this philosophy. I hope all of them do.

  54. Libertarians need a little lesson in marketing themselves and their ideas. Many of our ideals are spit out without any context that others can easily grasp. It isn’t that we need to reach out to the left or right but that we need the left and the right to understand why we believe what we do. It’s all too easy to say “we want to legalize drugs” but far too often we put no context to it. We often make issues black and white (even when they appear to be) when we need to understand there is some color in the subject that we should address.

    As a former center lefty, it took some reading before I actually “got” what it was libertarians were saying and why they were saying it. I had always held some libertarian ideas but maybe with the wrong reasoning behind it. I guess as Mr. Maymin has stated, we are a bright light, but maybe we can do some things to make the light a bit less “hard” to look at.

  55. Hell, Sanders is more libertarian than the retard caucus (and most Repugs/Dems) in several areas:

    http://bernie.org/?page_id=77

    “Sanders is popular because even if you disagree with him you know where he stands,” said Eric Davis, a political scientist at Vermont’s Middlebury College.

    Where does the retard caucus stand? Pro-freedom here, ant-freedom there…

  56. Libertarians need to tell Mike Nelson to shut the fuck up and concentrate on electing Libertarians who want to move us away from the socialist agenda that has doomed this nation.

  57. Libertarians need to vote for Democrats to speed up the coming revolution.

    Republicans will get us there but are taking too long and I want to be around when the shooting begins.

  58. he funny thing is, I’l bet hat Nelson’s positions and mine really arnt that far apart on the majority of issues.it would be interesting to survey.

  59. UA needs to stop calling all libertarians racists. It has been my experience that the people calling others racist are in fact the ones that are more likely to be racist.

  60. Mike,

    I am a LRC and Boston Tea Party member. I don’t agree with everything the LRC or LP says. I just want less socialism and more freedom. Whoever is best at getting shit done will get my support

  61. Libertarians need to read Shakespeare’s Twelfth Night, if only to recognize themselves in this line…

    …”by my enemies of I prosper, from my friends I stand to lose”

  62. Libertarians need to tell Mike Nelson to shut the fuck up and concentrate on electing Libertarians

    Speak of which, Chris Bennett, what have you done to help get libertarians elected lately? Besides join the retard caucus…

    I am a candidate, have posted several articles here promoting various campaigns and have donated over $3,000 to candidates… what have you done?

  63. Mike,

    I wish not to discuss this in open forum in which detracts from the ultimate purpose. You have my e-mail address, address your grieveances there.

  64. Cat got your tongue Chris?

    I wish not to discuss this in open forum in which detracts from the ultimate purpose.

    Well that is funny, you didn’t seem to have an issue discussing your positions in an open forum up until this comment… Were your other comments less distracting?

  65. Chris,

    I thought you weren’t going to discuss this in an open forum to keep from being a distraction?

    At any rate, which tactics are you referring to?

  66. You are the antithesis of progression.

    Again, what have you done to help get libertarians elected lately?

  67. Chris refuses to participate in food fights in open forums, well he will throw the food then run away crying, then come back and throw some more food and run away again. All food thrown back at him must be via private email.

  68. retard caucus member?

    Speaking of retards….

    Julian, perhaps someone can explain to you a little bit about how computers and the internet work?

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, LOL!

    Here’s how the poor old fool (my very own gay stalker, how cute!) came to believe that I’m Barbara Gordon, the mother of Steve Gordon:

    The domain of the Libertarian Party of Alabama, which hosts my blog, along with many others, is listed with ICANN under her name and the home of the Gordons in Hartselle, AL. I’m blog # 14 at LPA.

    Our extremely amateur detective then concludes I must live at their house. LOL! I’ve never even been there.

    Next thing you know he is listing their address on this blog claiming it’s mine, and that I’m Barbara Gordon in the now-closed Abu Ghraib thread.

    BIG CLUES for Sherlock VD:

    My name’s Paul. I’m male. I stay in motels. I’m 1,000 miles from Alabama. Dumbass!

    I guess he really IS fucked in the head! If Cheney didn’t do it who did?

  69. Republicans will get us there but are taking too long and I want to be around when the shooting begins.

    The Repugs have sped up the process quite nicely lately…

  70. Libertarians (on this blog) need to stop being so fucking stupid and learn how to take a joke. Racists.

  71. “And O’Reilly was heard to call himself a “libertarian” the other night on his show.”

    Bill O’Reilly is not even remotely close to being a libertarian. Harry Browne was on “The O’Reilly Factor” back in 2000 (I recorded it and I’ve still got it on tape) and O’Reilly was very rude to Harry. He kept interupting him and spewing anti-liberty nonsense like if it wasn’t for Social Security old people would be living in the streets and that if drugs were legal there’d be more traffic accidents.

    In 2004 Michael Badnarik was supposed to appear on the “O’Reilly Factor” to debate Bill over the Patriot Act (which Bill supports) and O’Reilly canceled Badnarik’s appearance at the last minute and refused to reschedule him.

    “Also, the other dude at Comedy Central, the geeky serious looking guy, came out of the closet and called himself a “libertarian” too the other night.”

    I saw that segement of “The Colbert Report.” Steven Colbert may very well be a libertarian.

  72. “Libertarians need to get off of the globalist New World Order bandwagon and worry more about our own citizens rather then focusing on letting in everyone else in the world who wants to come here and vote for big government Democrats!

    One world Corporate/government globalism is NOT real capitalism, it’s fascism”¦learn the difference.”

    I agree with this! I think that the REAL libertarians know the difference, but there are too many “libertarians” that are clueless about this.

    “The Constitution Party is now the third largest party for a reason, wake up before the rest of your party defects!”

    The Constitution Party is NOT really bigger than the Libertarian Party. They have more registered voters but that is because in California they are known as the American Independent Party. When of people registered to vote under this label they thought that they were registered as indepedents but in California to register as an independent you are supposed to mark the

  73. Decline To State. In Nevada they are known as the Independent American Party and I think that a similar situation exsists in at least one or two other states. The majority of these registered voters have no idea what the party is about and many of them would probably not even agree with it if they knew.

    In terms of actual party members and people elected to office the LP is ahead of the CP.

  74. I’d handle this privately but he wouldn’t give a shit, so I’m doing this here.

    Mike: you’re acting like a little fucking baby. It’s getting old. You always pick fights with anyone and everyone, and it’s long past started bringing the blog down. This isn’t a message board for you to show everyone that your e-penis is larger than everyone else’s. This isn’t your little platform for your cutesy vendettas. Stop being a little bitch, and get on with the business of this site. Stop dissing fellow editors, because you act far worse whenever anyone calls you out, or even dares to challenge you. You are the only consistently unprofessional editor here and when LM hits I fully expect your shit to hit the fan, not Google News.

    Grow the fuck up. You’re really disappointing me lately with your lack of professionalism.

    I don’t intend to argue this point, either. Take my advice and learn, or ignore it and be confined to oblivion as just another internet troll.

  75. You always pick fights with anyone and everyone, and it’s long past started bringing the blog down.

    I think it makes it more entertaining.

    I also agree that Libertarians (on this blog) need to stop being so fucking stupid and learn how to take a joke.

    This also applies to non-libertarians on this blog, such as ones who may have had their brainsac penetrated by Dick Cheney’s pecker in the craphouse at a Halliburton shareholders meeting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

  76. Re: “libertarian” Bill O Reilly:

    I dont think a whore like billy-o really knows anything. He probably thinks calling himself a libertarian is the cool thing for conservatives to do now. I don’t know if he thinks it’ll get him laid or get better ratings, but I’ve seen quite a few cons and rightwing socialist types call themselves “libertarian” recently…maybe they think people will like them better…maybe they’re so headfucked they think that they actually do favor minimal government. I don’t really know but this underscores the importance of letting people know what a libertarian is before our enemies take the word to define a subset of their beliefs.

  77. I’d like to see the Constitution Party cast off its theocracy and the Libertarian Party to cast off its globalism and then join together, then we can take down and replace the Republicans to become one of the ‘big two’, and then wage all out war on big government (including big WORLD government)and the Democrats.

    I’d also like to see a return to constitutional government, secure borders, and real capitalism (not this “mixed corporate/government economy” aka fascist system we have now). Then after we have our own house in order we can spread our dangerous freedom loving ideas to the rest of the world (WITHOUT sacrificing our sovereignty to create a world government).

    I’d also like people to wake up and realize that globalism won’t lead to some utopian ‘star trek like’ future of peace but more like a 1984 orwellian nightmare of global tyranny with no democracy, total survelliance, wage slavery, and bigger government then you can shake a stick at.

  78. We should steer clear of any merger with the Constipation Party.

    A more sensible merger would be to triangulate between the Greens who like the Key Values

    http://gp.org/tenkey.shtml

    But not the Marxist Green Party platform;

    Libertarians who don’t actually want to bring back the CSA complete with authentic 19th century chattel slavery, pave over as much of the planet as possible, and kiss the NSGOP’s fascist ass with plenty of tongue;

    And Democrats who are tired of their me-too corporate whore double penetration party selling them out on peace and civil liberties issues.

    Along the way it would be nice to pick up young anarchists ready to move beyond nihilism and syndicalism, and non-voters who hate the government but don’t pay much attention to it because all politicians appear to be SSDD (same shit different day).

  79. Christ on a stick, this is a hilarious site! After much pondering I have worked out what ‘mascot’ the Libertarians should use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerbil_stuffing
    Yes, the humble gerbil. It’s quite poetic really. Just think as Repubic & Dumbocrat as the two buttock cheeks and the Amerkan public as the quoit and…insert! Voila, Libertarianism at it’s most engaging. Yea Gods, must rest massive brain……

  80. I’d also like to see a return to constitutional government, secure borders, and real capitalism

    Constitutional government is a failed experiment.
    Constitutions always fail at limiting government. Limited government is like cutting out part of the cancer, it just grows right back.

    Secure borders are also a myth. They are not desirable, because they imply that the government is at least partial owner of the whole country, with all the property rights this implies. Nor are they enforceable, as the drug war proves: where there’s a will, there’s a way to cross them.
    What do the Berlin wall, Great Wall of China and Maginot Line have in common?

    Capitalism is a word invented by Marxists to obfuscate the difference between free market/free association voluntaryism (mutualism) on the one hand, and corporate fascism on the other. By making these concepts the same thing in people’s minds, the only alternative to corporate fascism is Marxist Socialism (same thing in practice).

  81. Christ on a stick, this is a hilarious site! After much pondering I have worked out what ”˜mascot’ the Libertarians should use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerbil_stuffing
    Yes, the humble gerbil. It’s quite poetic really. Just think as Repubic & Dumbocrat as the two buttock cheeks and the Amerkan public as the quoit and”¦insert! Voila, Libertarianism at it’s most engaging.

    I like the hamster, endlessly spinning its wheel. Do hamsters get stuffed up recti too or only gerbils?

    We should ask an expert. Julian?

  82. Paulie, and to everyone else (though you are the only to commeted on the issue so far. This link will take you an essay by Thoreau, it is about civil disobedience (hence the title), while i am sure some of you have read, my guess is many of you have not. It an amazing essay, in which Thoreau speaks out agaisnt a goverment which he veiwed as too powerful. And how to fight it

    http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/civ.dis.html

    my computer is being dumb (or i am), so you will have to cut and paste it

  83. It is probably a little let to add this to this string, so i will mention this again at post the site in the future. I am convinced that with a well timed, well tagreted act of civil disobendince it will have an effect. Yea, people will spend a night or two in jail, but I will but my ass on the line

  84. “We should steer clear of any merger with the Constipation Party.

    A more sensible merger would be to triangulate between the Greens who like the Key Values”

    The Libertarian Party should stay clear of any “mergers” with any other parties and focus on building the Libertarian label.

  85. Actually, Pauli, I was thinking that the Gerbil reference was more apropos to Libertarianism in that ‘gerbilling’ is mythic, much like Libertartian (sic) election success stories;-)
    KC, ta for the link, am actually buying ‘Walden’, Thoreau’s musings on things that he wrote whilst living ‘on Walden Pond’, in The States! Strike the Root mentions him all the time. Cheers.

  86. Constitutional government is a failed experiment.

    no, not yet. And if it does fail, only the people themselves are to blame. I dont believe that people that cannot govern themselves with the aid of frameworks such as these could do any better without those frameworks. If they cant even make a self governed society work with all these things, how much better they will do without them?

    And why do we keep fucking round robin debating these things when we havent gotten a single major law overturned
    or elected a single congressman in 35 years?

  87. You are preaching inclusion, but you want to exclude a very large, prime group of potential libertarians.

    Libertarians usually poll at less than 1%, even if we 5x our base we’d still be a joke to the masses. The potential tin-foil-hatters out there are much much smaller than the potential socially liberal, fiscally conservatives out there. We should go after the latter and ignore the hatters.

  88. Libertarians need to stop being racist

    Libertarians need to drop this “It’s okay to be a racist, bigot etc..” attitude. I heard libertarians defending racism with this attitude way too often. Sure, you can be a racist, but I don’t want you associated with myself, our political party. We’d rather lose than have your vote, go visit the Republicans or Constitutionalists.

  89. We should steer clear of any merger with the Constipation Party.

    A more sensible merger would be to triangulate between the Greens who like the Key Values

    Completely agree.

  90. Phil, from what I see, few people (if anyone) suggests a merger.
    Although as Libertarian Party members we should applaud and encourage them on like minded
    issues. That goes for the Greens too. We should also form limited issue specific alliances with them and build bridges.
    The Constitution Party is light years ahead of the neocon and theocon dominated Republican Party. Any party that is Pro-Constitution and for less government is a vast improvement over your average drooling Republicrat.

  91. Imagine what we could do if all of that money was funneled into a couple intelligently picked state level races with quality candidates similar to Guthrie, Bell, Hayes and others running”¦

    Damn Nelson, thats what I’ve been saying since 2000. You’re taking deformed retarded caucus positions.

  92. There is nothing wrong with Libertarians also joining the Constitution Party if they so choose and be members of both parties at the same time (as I am) just as some are members of The Libertarian Party and another Party. (ie. libertarians still in the Republican Party for one example) As libertarians (small l) we should not heap abuse on people for decisions they have made in this area. To view the Constitution Party as a foe reduces the chance they will vote Libertarian if they have no candidate running. Some libertarians are advocating joining the Democratic Party as a stratagem, while I dont know how well that would turn out, I do think that they shouldnt be attacked especially if they have reasoned it through. The Libertarian Party needs every vote it can get and that is possible to do without compromise but with pragmatism regarding who is voting. Too many LP members are WAY too focused on fanatical ‘purity’
    (according to whoever is doing the defining) and on purging all dissent

  93. Take Taxes for example. Some Libertarians verbally hack away at the poor schmuck who believes in only 1 tax, so much so, that when the verbal tirade is over the guy wants nothing more to do with the Libertarian Party!!!
    Fussing over a failure to live up to absolute Libertarian orthodoxy is a sure way to alienate people (and if truth be told, most of the people doing the fussing dont measure up to being completely orthodox Libertarians either!!!)

  94. You need to let people be free to decide for themselves.
    How can a person claim to be a libertarian and yet badger the hell out
    of people and browbeat or manipulate them into being a ‘Real Libertarian’?
    I have been guilty of this in the past. It doesnt work. It just makes people resentful. Let people move at their own speed and reason for themselves.
    A really good product sells itself. We arent used car salesmen. We dont need trickery, insults, browbeating or bait and switch. We just need to keep telling the truth.

  95. An alliance or coalition between all third parties for the sake of raising public awareness of third parties would really make waves.
    Imagine all third parties funding a commercial collectively that lists the websites of most every third Party. The Message?
    Check out a third Party! Vote Third Party!
    We are for increasing Freedom, right? Such a commercial would help to do just that!

  96. Thoreau’s awesome. Powerful stuff!

    TW

    no, not yet. And if it does fail, only the people themselves are to blame. I dont believe that people that cannot govern themselves with the aid of frameworks such as these could do any better without those frameworks. If they cant even make a self governed society work with all these things, how much better they will do without them?

    Constitutional government isn’t self-government. It’s an attempt to limit government power, which is impossible: coercive government always, in every country and every era of history, found ways around such limits.

    The fault isn’t the people’s, it is in the nature of government.

    Why are we debating this? Because you can’t expect to get where you’re going unless you first know the destination. You might stumble on it accidentally but it’s far less likely than if you know where you’re headed.

    Can we do better without the state? That’s like asking if your brain could do better without cancer.

  97. Libertarians usually poll at less than 1%, even if we 5x our base we’d still be a joke to the masses. The potential tin-foil-hatters out there are much much smaller than the potential socially liberal, fiscally conservatives out there. We should go after the latter and ignore the hatters.

    The number of people who don’t believe the regime’s official conspiracy theories is far larger than 5% and growing all the time. Furthermore, they are far more likely to “think outside the box” and thus consider a third party vote than those who buy into every silly bit of regime propaganda, like the 19 Arabs with boxcutters.

    If you buy that one, it’s more likely than not that you will also buy into other regimist fables, such as the supposed sanctity of the two-party system, or the necessity of the state (regime) to preserve civilization.

    Questioning all these sacred cows naturally goes together, although not in every individual case.

  98. Paulie; Re: your cancer analogy.

    Oxygen is a corrosive poison that destroys organic life in sufficient quantity.

    Without a minimal presence of it, human life cannot exist.

    I refer you to George Washington’s ubiquitous “Fire” quote.

  99. Hey Timothy West
    I believe you are on to something. The first thing I would is get rid of paper candidate in most States (I know some states need them). We spent $8000.00 to put two paper candidates on the ballot in Ga.We already had some Great guys running. The paper candidates took resources and they did not answer reporters calls which made the party look bad.
    I believe the next thing we need is campaign managers worse than candidates at times.Look at the campaigns that are doing great they have a good to great candidate and a team to help them.I believe if the party wants to more to the next level this is where resorces will go.(candidate tracker and ballot base are great tools).In Georgia we have spent resorces traning campaign teams. Mark Mosley is the person I would give a lot of credit for this.We need to learn how to market our candidates better, but we are getting there. My two cents.

  100. I would have to disagree with that analogy when it comes to government.

    It’s a poison in any quantity, not necessary in any way, and like malignant cancer, always tends to spread.

    Also like cancer, it will kill the patient if not stopped in time, and cutting out only part of it doesn’t cure the disease.

    GW was wrong about many other things, too, such as believing that his family’s slaves would be worse off if they were emancipated.

    Just because he was a revolutionary hemp farmer doesn’t make him the ultimate authority on every subject.

  101. We could drop the idiocy of replacing our mascot the Statue of Liberty which is quite appropriate and focus on REAL tactics. I’m not for globalism, nor for entangling alliances but damn the cut and dry black and white BS I’ve seen slung back and forth on here.

    Some of you have mentioned in the past that we can not eliminate taxes altogether. Well this is true with most things. As a realist I know that some of the programs we are currently “required” to pay ‘voluntarily‘ for are good, most however are a joke!

    Should the government fund stem cell research? NO.
    Should the governmnet ban stem cell research? NO.

    Herein lies the difference and why people are confused and vote for the wrong candidates. The goal is confusion and misrepresentation!

    So… My vote on this silly little “poll”…

    Libertarians need to stop being nit-picky and bickering at each other and FIGHT! Soon we wont have a choice.

    RFID anyone!? I’ll be anonymizing mine as soon as I get it!

  102. Mascot BS, wow your are right two people talking on a blog about a mascot switch is such misallocation of energy that we shouldn’t even bother, who do you think you are the fucking pope? Since I have the all wise and knowing douche bag on here, let me ask, what would like use to mention in a like a total of five or six post. Good thing you mentoned it again, you know, something that was written about like 70 post ago,way to stay on stop of it.

    And in the same breath you tell us to stop “nit picking and bickering”. You are a hypocrit

  103. Libertarians DO nitpick and bicker.
    The problem comes when that is all they do to the detriment of everything else.

    And there is nothing wrong with mascots. The Free State Porcupine or the liberty penguin are examples of people being creative. If that brings a single person onboard then go for it! It doesnt change the platform at all.

    The party should choose 3 Republicans and 3 Democrats each election cycle and nominate/ endorse them as being allies of Liberty based upon their voting records and give them an honorary award. If it runs afoul of campaign finance ‘law’ CRAP then take it to the Supreme Court! It will save the LP time and money on those specific races. AND it will bring media coverage too.
    When was the last time one Party ever endorsed another Partys candidate?
    Its unheard of! We are the Party of Principle, right? Thus we should support others ON Principle because they are actively supporting our principles!
    Regardless of Party affiliation. This is good pragmatism.

  104. It could also be done with other third parties too.
    (an award for the most capitalist friendly or small business friendly Green.
    (Im sure there are a very few)

    Which brings up another point. The LP has a golden opportunity it is not using.
    That is to criticize corporate welfare and be for separation of business and state.
    Most everyone hates state sponsored monopolies all across the political spectrum.
    Libertarians need to hammer away at corporate welfare in the Media thru op ed pieces!!! The free-market should be truly free. That means no company should be allowed to use the government to help it in any way or intervene in the economy. Thats fascism (big business in bed with big government creating an unfree and an thus unfair market)

  105. “GW was wrong about many other things, too, such as believing that his family’s slaves would be worse off if they were emancipated.”

    Weren’t George Washington’s slaves emancipated after his death at his prior request?

  106. I thought that was the case as well.

    and you cant apply 21st century hindsight to 18th century people. No doubt our great great great great grandchildren will laugh and sneer at us for our societial practices and declare how horrible it was that our lives were largely spent chasing money and material things and working for artifical constructs called corporations.

  107. Man, I wish I hadn’t vowed not to debate with you all until after the election. I really miss joining in the pointless bickering, the running in circles, the 4th grade caliber namecalling and the wasting of more energy fighting each other than trying to get our candidates elected. It would be a lot easier for me to handle if you all could agree to, at the very least, cut the crap too for a week and do something productive. This party is frickin doomed.

  108. Who do you want to work for if not a corporation, the government?

    Are those my only two possible options?

  109. Nick,

    We’ll welcome you back to the real world of nitpicking, debate and highly entertaining name-calling after you return from the bi-annual mass delusion that we’re going to make a big difference any time soon through the electoral process.

  110. Nick, you assume just because people have discussions in here that they are inactive in the LP movement. We can get into in here and still help people get elected, they are not mutally excusilve. For example, I taked a little smack on BS, but still was able to get some stuff done for the KU libertairans, who are trying to get shit done in kansas. I would not make broad judgements based on a few things written on some blogs

  111. No, kcjerith, that’s not what I’m assuming at all. I’m only questioning why people think this is a productive use of their time. It’s a maddening circle we’re running in. Why the hell do we have to “talk smack” to one another. We’re all libertarians for crying out loud. No wonder we’re not “going to make a big difference any time soon through the electoral process.”

    The only reason why I’m not leaving the party right this very second is because that’s exactly what Mike Nelson wants me to do – as if I’ll run away crying because he’s resorted to calling me prepubescent putdowns after he ran out of productive things to say.

    I was going to stick around until 2008, but if Tim goes post-election, I’m going too. I’d rather spend the next two years working to rebuild the Reform Party as a moderate libertarian party or work on a new party than waste my time here bickering and going nowhere. The LP is mostly doomed because of its members’ inability to listen to anyone but themselves.

  112. Nick, there are plenty of us in your corner… most of us are spending our time productively, as you know… contact me offlist and you won’t have to spend your time bickering, there is lots to do after the election.

  113. Nick, I doubt the resaon we will or will not make a differnece in the electorate is because some people talk a little shit. No it is probably not the most effective use of time. However it is human nature to get a little pissy, and there will always be a little bit of smack talked (I am looking at you Mascot BS!).
    Besides, if someone says what I am discussing is “idiocy” and just dismisses me, I am going to talk a little shit. I also think that some of the smack talking is due to the frustation of belonging to a country (and a politcal party) in which the government screws us over on a regular basis. In a way if everyone was always 100% polite I would be concerned, people are passionate, and passoniate people sometimes lose there temper a little.

  114. kcjerith,

    The problem is that when new recruits come to the LP, the first thing they hear is this sort of bickering and namecalling. The impression they get is that all libertarians hate each others’ guts because we always have to be more right than everyone else. That’s one of several reasons (perpetual losses being another) why most of them don’t stay very long. There’s easily 12 times the number of ex-LP members as there are current ones. Blaming the government for our failure is too easy of a scapegoat – we can’t do much to change the government until we change the way we approach politics, average people who might be future libertarians and each other.

    Instead, we sabotage ourselves politically (in so many ways), we scare away potential recruits who come to a new party for answers, and those of us who stay become the brunt of enough peoples’ hatred that either we harden to it or we get so fed up that we leave. Seriously, we have a lot of good brains – but zero common sense!

  115. The only reason why I’m not leaving the party right this very second is because that’s exactly what Mike Nelson wants me to do

    Doesn’t that mean that the bickering is in fact productive then, from your perspective? You’re actually claiming that it’s the only thing keeping you in the party and thus allowing you to do whatever else you do as a result.

  116. I was going to stick around until 2008, but if Tim goes post-election, I’m going too. I’d rather spend the next two years working to rebuild the Reform Party as a moderate libertarian party or work on a new party than waste my time here bickering and going nowhere.

    Please do leave. Tim, what can we do to encourage you to leave, taking your rag-tag retard circus with you?

    Go water-down the reform party, create a “moderate Libertarian oxymoron party, or join your ideological equivalents the rep/dem party.

    Stop threatening to leave, just leave already!

  117. Please do leave. Tim, what can we do to encourage you to leave, taking your rag-tag retard circus with you?

    Nick says the only reason he’s staying is because you want him to leave. If you wanted him to stay, that might encourage him to leave.

    I don’t know if Tim’s motivations are in any way similar.

    I don’t think it matters that much who leaves and who stays.

    The socialist movement did not die when the Communists left the Socialist Party to start their own, and other socialists left to infiltrate the major parties.

    On the contrary, it became quite successful, to the point where not only have most of its policy proposals actually been enacted, but it is now “lunatic fringe” to be against them.

    With any luck the libertarian movement will be just as successful, even if we splinter into separate radical and moderate parties.

  118. Mike,

    If you think the LRC ruined the LP, people like you saying exactly things like this for the past 30 years created the stimulus for it more than anything else. It’s also the reason why the LP will never, ever grow – there is no way we can even begin to attract moderate libertarians, much less the regular moderates needed to win elections, if the members call everyone who isn’t in the top corner of the Nolan Chart or anyone who believes that there is any valid function for government whatsoever socialists, Demopublicans, retards, et al.

    I never wanted to fight. It just makes me genuinely sad that someone is so intent on compromising everything he claims to value by burning bridges with most of his potential allies. You’re not alone, either. I see it often. I won’t be surprised 30 years down the road to find you even more embittered, stuck in the same loop. I won’t waste my life inherently compromising liberty, quixotically pretending the LP is actually shrinking government.

  119. It’s also the reason why the LP will never, ever grow

    Well then, leave already.

    there is no way we can even begin to attract moderate libertarians

    Then go create a moderate libertarian party. Better yet, there are already un-principled, moderate parties out there and they are call the Rep/Dem party. Join them.

  120. state/local elections -> no-bullshit Libertarian party
    federal electons -> watered down foot-in-door libertarian-esq party

    …and behind the scenes the Auburn Austrians run the show! CFR style.

  121. ”¦and behind the scenes the Auburn Austrians run the show! CFR style.

    No, it’ll be the Tuscaloosa Hungarians.

    Or perhaps the Birmingham Czechs, or Montgomery Swiss.

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