1. Holy shit…

    This guy, is my new hero. If only we could have him in America to say the same thing on CNN…

    Instead, we get CNN riding with IDF members. Bias anyone?

  2. I’m hardly “pro-Israel”, and I bristle at the fact that you have to glance over your shoulder for “anti-Semitism” attacks whenever you breath a WORD critical of Israeli policies, but nevertheless this guy is still completely full of sh*t.

    The Israelis have killed civilians due to inevitable sloppyness in attacks on military forces (reason #427 why I oppose the idea of war). Hezbollah rains thousands of rockets upon Israel for the express and exclusive purpose of targeting civilians. It is for this reason that Hezbollah is a “terrorist organization”. It’s also why Galloway is insane to argue that they’re not terrorists simply because they’ve been less efficient thus far.


  3. (…cont)

    U.S. financial aid to the Israeli military is a valid Libertarian issue to press on. The interventionism that breeds this conflict is a valid Libertarian issue. However, any level of support for non-state armed militias practicing guerilla attacks deliberately targeting civilians is a disgusting stance for anyone, Libertarian or otherwise.

  4. I’m no Israel fan but Hizbollah is much worse. That said, this guy is amazing. I want him on my side.

  5. Man this guy is good. Supreme intelligence, extensive knowledge on the conflict and has wiped the floor with any fool who has the audacity (stupidity) to challenge him. The senate were mere amateurs up against Galloway, the guy suceeds because what he states is substantiated fact and you cannot argue against fact. If only Bush would face this guy, i’d pay to see Dubya get massacred.

  6. Steve Perkins, apparently Galloway hosts a 2 hour radio phone in in the UK. I suggest you ring him up and tell him hes full of shit and put forward your points to him (especially the validation for US financial aid to the israeli’s), guarantee he’d laugh at your idiocy and simply thank you for doing his job for him.

  7. WOW! I’m very impressed with Galloway. This dude is a raw beast! I thought he was going to call that woman an idiot airhead cunt or something! He raised all the good points and did it with force and indisputable sense while making the media and the host in particular look stupid, biased and utterly dishonest.

  8. Steve P — sorry, man, but we have to disagree here.

    Hezbollah is definitely a terrorist organization, and I do not support its tactics.

    However, Mr. Galloway was *ABSOLUTELY* correct in the following: Isreal is a terrorist nation.

    Have you *LOOKED* at accepted Masod tactics? Have you *READ* anything coming out of Beirut? Israel is sending rockets into civilian territories and destroying *CIVILIAN* infrastructure; it is blockading and starving out the entire city of Beirut.

    It is the aggressor. We have an aggressor being fought with terrorist tactics.

    *NEITHER* is acceptable. And that’s all there is to it.

  9. That was classic. You’ll never, ever see an interview anything like that in the US! At least Sky News viewers got the other side of the story for a change.

  10. Yup Steveo Perkins, it’s perfectly OK when a GOVERNMENT massacres civilians and in a ten to one ratio compared to what the other side is doing. Oh no, THAT’S NOT TERRORISM. The money your government masters steal out of your paycheck to give to foreign governments, now that’s called “aid” even if it is used to blow up civilians.

  11. galloway is right we are listening to jewsih owned media for many years israel is the bully a hateful racist states if someone tell me its the only democracy in middle east i swear they will get a punch in the face now because of american support the world sees the conflict in the eyes of the innocent libanese people i become anti semite and i don’t want to hear about the holocaust because the jews created one in lebanon damn you

  12. John — that is both grammatically atrocious, and far, far too far.

    Israel is evil. Jews are not.

  13. There is growing recognition of the difference between Jews and Israel. This separation is necessary for a proper debate.
    There is also another separation that needs to be noted. Hizbollah set up in Lebanon, but that does not mean Lebanon IS Hizbollah. To say otherwise is like saying “all Germans are Nazis”.
    We are dealing with Venn diagrams and pure mathematical LOGIC here. Not opinions.
    The invasion of Lebanon by Israel is therefore like Northern Ireland invading Southern Ireland, because of the IRA.
    There is too much raw emotional heat in this debate and not enough logical reasoning. Employing logic would help calm everyone down and move towards a resolution.
    But since the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been going on basically since Biblical times, what hope do we have of this? I believe that they will still be fighting when the current generation dies. I just can’t see any alternative in my lifetime. And that makes me sad.

  14. How very refreshing…there is some truth in the media. I am mostly amazed that Murdock and the Sky News henchmen let it air. Bravo!

  15. Quite right, IanC. Howver, the problem is that 95% of the population of Israel supports the attacks on Lebanon. That sort of makes a anti-Jew even if you weren’t before.

  16. The Torah EXPLICITLY forbids the existence of a Jewish state, this is central to being a Jew, therefore Zionism is in DIRECT CONFLICT with Judaism.

    If you support the existance of the state of Israel, then, by DEFINITION, you are not a Jew.

    Israel was formed, not for Jews, but for those elite seeking to establish a ‘base’ to exploit the middle eastern people and its resources.

  17. My disgust with Hezbollah is an “endorsement” of Israel. There are NO “good guys” in that entire region. Also, I specifically implied that U.S. financial aid for Israel’s military is a bad thing, yet at least one person turned that around to mean I was endorsing it. Strawman laziness at its finest.

    I read an article recently in a left-wing think tank journal about the Left’s “marriage of convienence” with radical Islam in attacking the institutions and philosophy of the West. The basic sense, coming from this leftist writer, is that leftists have been “left out in the cold” for so many decades now that they are prone to foolishly linking up with anyone opposing the same powers that they are (an “enemy of my enemy is my friend” argument). I fear that Libertarians are just as prone to putting resentment ahead of principle in some cases.


  18. (…cont)

    Look, the “black and white”, “good guy vs. bad guy” worldview is for neocons and the retarded (apologies for the redundency). The reality is that not every violent conflict has a “good guy” and “bad guy” (most wars seldom do). It is possible (and correct) to criticize Israel without feeling obligued to endorse a terrorist monster like Hezbollah in the process. I’m ashamed of some of you for lacking the intelligence and principle to grasp that obvious point.

  19. Steve P:

    You’re only confirming what Galloway is saying about media bias. A simple flick of the switch:

    “Hezbollah have killed civilians due to inevitable sloppyness in attacks on military forces”

    “Israel rains thousands of rockets upon Lebanon for the express and exclusive purpose of targeting civilians. It is for this reason that Israel is a “terrorist organization”.”

    I agree with your statement that that there doesn’t have to be a good vs bad in this or any conflict. Agreed. However you go on to stress the point that Hezbollah are the monsters. Surely Israel deserves the same label? This video alone gives you all the reasons why they are in fact the agressors here, and have been for decades.

    You’re making an assumption about the Israeli military tactics, saying that they aren’t targeting civilians. There are perfectly valid theories around that state they are in fact targeting the Hezbollah civilian supporter base, to punish them. That is a definition of terror, is it not?

  20. There have been protest by Shiites in Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia against Israel and the USA. Hezbollah (Hizbollah) is mostly made up of Shiites. It would be in the best interest of the USA if they withdrew support for Israel to show to the middle east countries the USA is for peace in the middle east.

    What would happen if some of the USA military weapons get into the hands of Hezbollah though the Iraq to Iran to Syria to Lebanon path? The USA would then be supporting both sides with military weapons.

  21. If you can ascertain that Israel deliberately targets civilians as part of its strategy, then you would be correct in seeing little or no difference in the two sides. However, that strikes me a fairly proposterous and counter to their goals. Either way you view it, whether you regard Israeli civilian killings as collateral damage or as deliberate targets, I HOPE that we are in agreement on the principle that there is a difference.

  22. Yes Steve, reporting which is contrary to mainstream media does seem proposterous – until you’re actually there. The fact is I was caught in this recent conflict in Lebanon for almost a week, finally getting back home last week.

    All I have to say is that I thought much like you did before the trip. While I was there I watched CNN and saw the obvious bias towards Israel eg. a 3 day old Hezbollah rocket attack on Israel being shown while fresh Israeli strikes were killing Lebanese civilians. All the usual the key words that get thrown around “terrorism”, “freedom”, “lasting peace”, etc.

    Moral of the story: look around for your news from many sources, don’t get it solely from the mainstream US run stations/publications. Think for yourself.

    Here is a great article, one that I wouldn’t have looked for before my experiences:

  23. Galloway says it like it is and makes the mains stream media look like absolute fools that they are.

    People like him because he tells the truth and in reality people like him because they are seeking the truth!

    Galloway makes sense, the main stream media don’t.

    Simple isn’t it!

  24. To say that Gorgeous George Galloway is anything other than a demagogue is just… well, just don\’t sound as impressed as the idiots that elected him MP.

    Honestly, I\’m surprised most of you don\’t see through his union hall firebrand bullshit (take your red meat elsewhere, please). He is an embarrassment to legitimate activists and — like Cindy Sheehan — does far more to hurt than to help.

  25. The Torah EXPLICITLY forbids the existence of a Jewish state, this is central to being a Jew, therefore Zionism is in DIRECT CONFLICT with Judaism.

    If you support the existance of the state of Israel, then, by DEFINITION, you are not a Jew.

    Israel was formed, not for Jews, but for those elite seeking to establish a ”˜base’ to exploit the middle eastern people and its resources.

    Citations please, Mr. Ross. You’re going to point at Neturei Karta, who you’ll note takes a radical minority interpretation of the Torah vis a vis a Jewish state. While this is an interpretation, it is by no means a generally accepted one.

  26. Like or dislike what he says, an admission must be made: we don’t get this kind of thing here. All we get is kabuki. Sock puppets arguing over the quantity of angels residing upon pin-heads. Like that scene in the (execrable) movie adaption of Fahrenheit 451 where the interactive TV program that allows participants to decide such earthshaking issues of importance as to who gets to sleep in the guest room.

    Most ournalists in this country seem to have covertly been anesthetized, had their teeth extracted, and been provided foam-rubber dentures in their place. We need more of this in-your-face stuff here.

  27. Come on people…Mexico invades America…what do you think the US would do? The Americans would SLAUGHTER every Mexican they could find…Hezbollah is doing the only thing it CAN do to make Israel pay for it’s violaitons of their airspace over the past 6 years and the continued imprisonment of their people and their pan Arab Palestinian brothers…until you grasp we will continue to have all of this terrible violence that accomplishes nothing…

  28. Umm, Galloway’s wrong here. He’s quick on his feet and his brogue is cool to listen to, but he’s wrong.

    Israel has left all Lebanese territory. The only disputed territory is Shebaa Farms, which is, in actuality Syrian territory, not Lebanese territory.

    Hezbollah’s incursion into Israel and capture of Israeli soldiers is an act of war and their continuing pattern of firing rockets from civilian buildings and neighborhoods, then disappearing to leave the residents of the same to bear the brunt of the defensive reaction, is why more civilians are dying in Lebanon than Israel.

  29. There is no separation between jews and Israel,jews created israel so in fact israel are jews , and all jews are financially,religiously,fanaticly tied to Israel in support,so jews are responsable of the massacre of lebanese and the palestinians.
    As to come today to argue the facts put in front by George galloway is to believe like he said that the clock started ticking when Hezbollah attacked military post and kidnapped soldiers,the clock started ticking when the British put an extremist religious terrorist group’s wish to reality,bringing those people to a so called promessed land and establishing a state on existing nation’s land: the palestinians,may be we muslims should write a little chapter in our coran and say London is a promossed land for Muslims,invade it,declare a state there and create a torn region of wars for an everlasting time.how about that as a promess of God ? Promessed land, get real people.Justice like he sais is what will bring peace all over the planet.

  30. Hezbollah’s incursion into Israel and capture of Israeli soldiers is an act of war

    Your comments have been extremely well-put all-around, Nicholas. However, one not-so-minor nitpick about the comment above… only states issue “acts of war”. Hezbollah’s actions have been acts of insurgency (when targeted at soldiers) and acts of terrorism (when targeted at civilians).

    Apparently there’s a far more sizable anti-Israel faction on HoT than I had imagined. I’m not unsympathetic to that, as I oppose most of Israel’s foreign policy also. However, I’m not twisted enough to embrace radical Islamic militants instead… or dim-witted enough to view matters in black-and-white terms that would require such a choice.

  31. Your comments have been extremely well-put all-around, Nicholas. However, one not-so-minor nitpick about the comment above”¦ only states issue “acts of war”. Hezbollah’s actions have been acts of insurgency (when targeted at soldiers) and acts of terrorism (when targeted at civilians).

    And thus the complexity of the situation. Hezbollah is both a resistance movement inside Lebanon and a part of the formal Lebanese government. While there is a good claim that the incursion and kidnapping was not an act of war by the Lebanese state, it was an act carried out from within that state with no credible response by that state.

    Say that Minutemen on the Texas border crossed the river and kidnapped some Mexican soldiers. The Federal government would rightly work to find those soldiers and punish the kidnappers. Now imagine that the US government did nothing about it. You’re left with an act of war by a non-state actor who is harbored by a state.

    The situation in Lebanon is complex.

  32. Hezbollah has been built up by Syria and Iran for the last 25 years. They have effective control over large portions of the south of the country along with an entire suburb of Beirut. They are the second-largest employer in Lebanon and provide most social services in the south of the country.

    Lebanon only recently ejected the Syrians after the murder of their Prime Minister by Syrian agents. Suffice it to say that Hezbollah had it better under Syrian occupation.

    Until the Lebanese government is strong enough to guarantee security in the south of their country, Israel has no choice but to fight Hezbollah themselves. They are in a position similar to the United States when the Taliban would not assist with the capture of Osama bin Laden. While the government of Lebanon is not actively hostile to Israel, their inability or unwillingness to act against Hezbollah puts Israel at risk.

    Right now, if the Lebanese army tried to curb Hezbollah, they’d lose. This would also be bad.

  33. “I don’t think that our viewers know that Israel actually occupied Lebanon for 18 years and that in the past 6yrs years alone it’s launched 11,782 missiles over the Lebanese border. In comparison, Hizbullah has launched 100 missiles over the border. Did Americans know that? Did they know???”

    Bullshit numbers. Provide a citation for that that isn’t just a quote from a partisan appraring on O’Reilly. Even the commenters in your linked post acknowledged that there is no independent source for the claim quoted.

    The quote is a lie and you are repeating it.

  34. Its hard to believe that not all libertarians support Israel. It is the only limited government in that region and therefore are the only government in that region that has any right to exist. An Arab living in Israel has just as many rights as a Jew living there, yet a Jew living in any of the Arab terrorist dictatorships that surround Israel would likely be killed, and they are given no rights under the law.

    Israel is the good guy in this war. People who love liberty can only hope that this war will escalate, that the Islamic totalitarians will be defeated, and Israel will win. If you don’t know your position on the Israeli-Arab conflict, or want some reason to balance the disinformation of websites like the one Mike Nelson posted, I suggest reading: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_america_at_war_israeli_arab_conflict

    If there is any just war is the status quo, it is Israel’s war on the Islamic totalitarians.

  35. Its hard to believe that not all libertarians support Israel. It is the only limited government in that region…

    Too many Libertarians have as their main principle a simple desire to oppose “The Man”… whomever or whatever “The Man” may be in any given context. If the U.S. were funding Palestine or Hezbullah, and the Israeli military was weaker than its opposition, you’d see “Libertarians” running around with the Star of David tattooed on their foreheads.

  36. Steve: Wow. I think you are 100% correct. Just because Bush supports Israel doesn’t mean its wrong. The US government does so many bad things, I can see why many libertarians might just become comfortable thinking that everything that it does is wrong. There are very few exceptions, but one of them is supporting Israel. Israel’s war against the Islamic totalitarians is easily the most dramatic struggle for liberty that I have witnessed in my lifetime. I can only hope they are victorious.

  37. Mike: the UN is the most corrupt and evil organization in the world. Since I support Israel, I would assume that an evil organization would not.

  38. Hizbullah’s attacks stem from Israeli incursions into Lebanon


    “In the process of its violations, Israel has terrorized the general population, destroyed private property, and killed numerous civilians. This past February, for instance, 15-year-old shepherd Yusuf Rahil was killed by unprovoked Israeli cross-border fire as he tended his flock in southern Lebanon. Israel has assassinated its enemies in the streets of Lebanese cities and continues to occupy Lebanon’s Shebaa Farms area, while refusing to hand over the maps of mine fields that continue to kill and cripple civilians in southern Lebanon more than six years after the war supposedly ended. What peace did Hizbullah shatter?”

  39. DAP – that is funny, usually the loons supporting the Israeli terrorist state use that ridiculous organization as their scape-goat.

  40. Mike: the UN is the most corrupt and evil organization in the world. Since I support Israel, I would assume that an evil organization would not.

    When you put Israel in quotations (as if implying that it doesn’t really exist), you sound like Iran’s Ahmadinejad. If this is the case, then perhaps you are on the wrong blog. Hammer of Truth triumphs liberty, individual rights, and reason (not coercion, totalitarianism and jihad). Since I have generally agreed with you in the past, I suggest you do some research on this topic before you side with the terrorists.

  41. And, I don’t mean the above to be overly harsh; I am just saying that when you support a totalitarian government’s victory over the only limited government in the Mideast, it brings your love for liberty and reason into question.

  42. So, we’re supposed to support Israel because it is a “limited government”? Limited in what sense… to killing its neighbors and occupying their lands? That those neighboring Arab countries don’t extend individual rights to their citizens as far as Israel does to its own is not justification for Israel’s violent aggression.

  43. Mike, posting lots of slanted links doesn’t answer the previous request for a citation for your “11,782 missiles” quote.

    action-for-un-renewal.org.uk is a site dedicated to expanding the power of the UN, something generally not seen as a libertarian goal.

    The Christian Science Monitor link (comment 48) is an opinion (not news) piece by Anders Strindberg, “formerly a visiting professor at Damascus University, Syria, is a consultant on Middle East politics working with European government and law-enforcement agencies. He has also covered Syria, Lebanon, and the Palestinian territories as a journalist since the late 1990s, primarily for European publications.” Reading the entire piece, it’s heavy on opinion but short on facts.

    If Americans Knew is Allison Weir’s tool to advance the same agenda she’s been writing about for years.

    Seriously, tossing biased links around doesn’t help.

  44. Israel responded to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah, right? Wrong


    “But there is no serious debate about why the two soldiers were captured: Hizbullah was seeking to exchange them for the 15 prisoners of war taken by the Israelis during the occupation of Lebanon and (in breach of article 118 of the third Geneva convention) never released. It seems clear that if Israel had handed over the prisoners, it would – without the spillage of any more blood – have retrieved its men and reduced the likelihood of further kidnappings. But the Israeli government refused to negotiate. Instead – well, we all know what happened instead. Almost 1,000 Lebanese and 33 Israeli civilians have been killed so far, and a million Lebanese displaced from their homes.”

  45. What is with this site? Every time somebody like Sarwark prints about a dozen paragraphs of well thought out and logcal views, the response from a Mike Nelson or Ian Bernard is some 3rd-grade playground taunt like, “Enjoy your shackles!”, or “Go back to watching Faux News!”. Then they probably high-five themselves over how clever they are. REALLY?!? You’re really proud of this and stand by it as being intelligent and credible discourse?!

    I think every blogger on this site should have their front-page posting privledges yanked with the exception of Sarwark, Stuart, Michelle, and Stephen Gordon (and he should be required to take a breathalzer before every post). Ehh, I guess we’d have to keep VanDyke too since it’s his blog.

  46. Steve – Yes, that happens EVERY time. Kinda like Israel NEVER acts as a terrorist state.

  47. Re: comment 55

    Israel responded to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah, right? Wrong

    There is nothing in your quote or in the linked story that claims that the incursion by Hezbollah was anything other than an unprovoked attack.

    The thrust of the article is that Hezboallah has done this before to force a prisoner exchange, that it has worked in the past, and that this time Israel had developed a plan for launching a counter-attack on Hezbollah rather than negotiating.

    Nasrallah was probably very surprised that this kidnapping provoked the current war, rather than prisoner exchange negotiations. I’m guessing that it was just bad timing, with Olmert not amused by another kidnapping on a different front so soon after the kidnapping in Gaza.

    As Steve mentioned, there has been little, if any, substantive response to my points. Throwing web links may work with the other people you debate, but I remain unconvinced.

  48. Steve P, DAP:

    I draw the line in the sand when it comes to wars of aggression, and to causing intentional harm to nonmilitary targets during *ANY* conflicts.

    Israel is currently using air-raids to bomb any vehicle in motion on the roads in Tyre & Beirut amongst other places. ANY vehicle, including donkey carts, has been ruled ‘fair game.’ Civilian airstrips have been bombed out. Civilian manufactories have been bombed out. Routes into and out of the cities have been blockaded, with no means for support. Hospitals are turning away patients for lack of supplies.

    That is ALL in Lebanon. Israel’s actions are to be scourned and demonized, NOT supported. Israel is a routine aggressor & imperialistic nation. This is NOT libertarian. They routinely assassinate political enemies. This is NOT libertarian.

    Hezbollah is better only in that they have caused less damage; a thing born SOLELY of their lack of resources.

    I support neither. I condemn both. End of story: both are wrong.

  49. Well said, IanC. While I tend to avoid taking sides in this perpetual, lose-lose battle, I do tire of seeing the US media’s blatant pro-Israel slant to everything.

  50. It is important to note here that too much of this debate is based on insecure ‘individuals’, rather than doing the hard research, instead lazily embrace various ideologies fabricated by neo-fascist corporate royalty think-tanks.

    Money always has, is, and will be for some time, the root of all this evil. This argument fixates on the superficial, as they often do, while skirting the core truths.

    In this case the money is the massive natural resource deposits in and around the Dead Sea, including oil. Also, it has become a rich bed of religious fanatics, easily co-opted and funded to perform false-flag terror campaigns, like NYC 9/11, London 7/7, etc etc etc…

    We need to avoid the temptation to sheepishly submit to these monolith corporate run political bodies, in the hopes of being enslaved by an illusion of freedom. The entirely corupt American 2 party system is the perfect example of what that lazy cowardice leads to.

  51. The real question that the racists on here fail to answer is: Who is invading whose country?

  52. Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 …


    “THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

    Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis ”“ and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.”

  53. Steve,
    I share your sentiments. There are a few poor bloggers on HoT that drag down the rest.

    The conditions you cited are unavoidable in war. I agree that they are ugly and unfortunate, but nevertheless are necessary components to a just and overdue war against the terrorist regimes surrounding Israel. However, Israel does everything it can to mitigate civilian loss while maximizing damage to the terrorists. Israel sends letters and telephones civilians that live in an area where Hezbollah hides their military weapons to warn them of upcoming attacks. In stark contrast, Hezbollah uses missiles that are impossible to aim so that they cannot be blamed when they hit civilian areas in Israel. Hezbollah goes out of its way to put military bases in civilian areas. You talked about how Israel bombs cars south of the Litani, but even this was forewarned by Israel. (cont…)

  54. From the NYT: “Every vehicle, whatever its nature, which travels south of the Litani will be bombed on suspicion of transporting rockets and arms for the terrorists,” said the leaflets, addressed to the people of Lebanon and signed “State of Israel.”

    Also, I agree that Israeli terrorists do exist (just as there are American terrorists). However, the state of Israel does not fund these groups. In contrast, the governments of Iran, Lebanon, and Palestine do not try to hide the fact that their regimes are run and funded by terrorists. Israel is a free, Westernized country, and is therefore the bane of the Islamic Jihad (and people like Mike Nelson).

  55. Mike,
    I can see how someone could be confused and condemn both Israel and Hezbollah. However, your endorsement of Hezbollah and denial of Israel’s right to exist will undoubtedly reserve you a spot in the deepest circle of journalist hell.

    That aside, I want to encourage everyone to read the foundation for my support of Israel and condemnation of terrorists. I am still shocked that libertarians could disagree on this issue: http://www.aynrand.org/site/DocServer/israel_sept_2002.pdf?docID=164

  56. However, Israel does everything it can to mitigate civilian loss while maximizing damage to the terrorists.

    Nonsense. See #62 as an example.

    Also, if that was true, then why have so many more Lebanese civilians been murdered vs the folks defending their country?

  57. Mike, from your own source:
    “Ein el-Hilweh is the largest of Lebanon’s 12 Palestinian refugee camps and has witnessed years of bombings, assassinations and shootings as rival factions in the camp vie for control.

    The camp also is believed to be hide-out for many fugitives wanted by Lebanese authorities and is a haven militant groups.”

    Newsflash: Hezbollah places military targets around civilians to make Israel look bad. This is in Terrorism 101.

  58. “The real question that the racists on here fail to answer is: Who is invading whose country?”

    A country that does not recognize individual rights has no right to exist.

  59. DAP – so the US government (and all other govts including Israel) has no right to exist?

  60. Clever.

    The parts of the US and Israeli government that do not recognize individual rights have no right to exist (see: IRS, DEA, etc). For Palestine et al, this would be their entire government.

    And by the way, mad props on the race card. That was the best argument I’ve heard you make.

  61. “The real question that the racists on here fail to answer is: Who is invading whose country?”

    A country that does not recognize individual rights has no right to exist.

    Alas, DAP, you fell into Mike “The Linkmaster” Nelson’s trap of replying to a comment where he accused you of being racist. Now he will link back to your comment to prove you’re a racist.

    Of course some erudite person will explain that he took your statements out of context and that they don’t support his claim.

    He’ll then reply with another biased link.

    And so it goes.

  62. …and Stephen Gordon (and he should be required to take a breathalzer before every post)

    How high do I have to blow before I’m allowed to post?

  63. DAP — so, your argument is as follows…

    “The ones who stayed are putting themselves at risk, might even have been terrorists, but either way were definitely unfortunate losses in a necessary war against terrorists.”

    Let me ask you something, then; how, precisely, does that stack up with Israel effectively putting multiple Lebanese cities under airial and ground-based seige?

    The very concept of leaflets falling from the sky saying, “Don’t drive or we’ll kill you for being terrorists!” as a justification for doing just that… is plain and utter bullshit, man. That’s all there is to it.

    Once again: Israel targets civilian facilities and infrastructure. Israel has been and continues to be an occupying force. Israel has *EXPANDED* via military conquest since its founding by the then-equivalent of the UN.

    Hezbollah’s no better. But libertarians do not support summary execution, rendition, imprisonment without trial, or imperialism.


  64. The crux of purist libertarianism (which I consider myself a part of) is the noninitiation of force; war is still possible within these limits. I would call your position ‘pacifist libertarianism’ rather than ‘purist libertarianism’.

  65. Remember… the “captured Israeli soldiers” were on Lebanon’s soil


    So yeah… for you libertarians. If a robber broke into your house, and you managed to capture him before he fled with your money, DVD player, etc… would you support other robbers coming to save the captured robber?

    How absurd.

    TWO soldiers were captured an all of a sudden Israel goes ripshit. Of course, they have thousands of Lebanese prisoners (and yes Nick, those numbers may be inflated… but as long as they are in reality more than TWO… there are still more than the soliders Isreal lost).

    Of course, Israel can do whatever it wants. And we send our depleted uranium bunker busting missiles (20+ of them!) so they can get those terrorists.

    ahh, sweet irony

  66. I’m with Rick and Ian on this one. You guys seriously keep dropping inflated arguments that are obviously as biased as the news in regards to Israel’s right to attack.

    Both organizations are terrorist organizations, the Israeli military is currently acting as a terrorist organization as is Hezbollah.

    The fact that we’re funding a terrorist organization, which is intentionally targeting and murdering civilians with sophisticated weapons is RIDICULOUS.

    It’s pretty simple, argue as you please but I’ve yet to see anyone begin to describe how Israel is NOT a terrorist organization.

    Hezbollah is no less legitimate. Therefore in my opinion if you support one you might as well support the other and basically you defeat all of your own arguments, and look like an ass of course.

  67. Remember”¦ the “captured Israeli soldiers” were on Lebanon’s soil

    First, why are you using scare quotes around the words, “captured Israeli soldiers”? Are you implying that they weren’t captured? weren’t Israeli? weren’t soldiers? all three?

    The July 12 Forbes article doesn’t make it clear that they were on Lebanese soil. Further, to excerpt from the Guardian opinion piece Mike Nelson linked earlier:

    There has been a heated debate on the internet about whether the two Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hizbullah that day were captured in Israel or in Lebanon, but it now seems pretty clear that they were seized in Israel. This is what the UN says, and even Hizbullah seems to have forgotten that they were supposed to have been found sneaking around the outskirts of the Lebanese village of Aita al-Shaab. Now it simply states that “the Islamic resistance captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine”.

  68. From that Zionist mouthpiece, Aljazeera.com, this story, quoting Hezbollah’s official statement:

    Hezbollah announced the capture of the Israeli troops on its television channel, al-Manar, saying that they want to exchange them with all Arab prisoners in Israeli prisons.

    “Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the (Arab) prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance … captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine,” Hezbollah said in a statement, adding that the “two captives were transferred to a safe place.”

    Sorry Rick, the claim that the soldiers were in Lebanon when they were captured is bullshit. You’re welcome to your own opinions on the situation, but you can’t have your own facts.

  69. Ah, I forgot that Palestine has already been annexed by Israel.

    So it seems all the newspapers disagree. For instance, the Asia Times article

    It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon’s side of the border with Israel.

    And my quotes were more or less poking fun of the “captured” part… Not that they weren’t actually caught, but that the Lebanese soldiers actually managed to sneak in and take them.

  70. HEY HONKIES! There are JEWS who are not Zionists. One such is a quite prominent Aussie Journo, with a measured take on the whole shebang. Zionists in Oz are having conniptions over his newly published book “My Israel Question” Check it out when y’all ain’t chest thumping…Regards.

  71. GO ISRAEL.

    The more terrorists they kill, the less we will have to kill. I hope Halliburton has contracts to provide services to Israeli Defense Forces once they occupy Lebanon, Syria and Iran.

    I think I will purchase more stock in Halliburton.

  72. I do believe that Julian’s comment sums up the mentallity of the pro-Israel lemmings quite well.

  73. Galloway was a badass on that show! He has something (actually several things) which most modern American repubacrats lack. He is intelligent, a powerful speaker, and is not afraid to take on a member of the media. However, he fails to get at the root of the mideast crisis. Religion! No one is safe when everyone is fighting for the promised land.

  74. GreginOz

    Enjoyed every minute of it. It was your Aussie SAS commandos that trained me in 1967 at the British Jungle Warfare School in Malaysia. You should be proud of your military for doing such a fine job.


    This will give you a little history about your finest.

  75. Jules, yeah I knew a couple of ’em, one same year as me at school, trained in Western Australia, real fkn badass. Tis a pity tho’ that the Australian Govt. treats ’em like SHIT the minute they are of no use to the State. According to The State, Agent Orange was a frisky but odour managing deodorant. Ruined joints, sinews, et al count for nothing when these guys are discharged. Was it Machievelli who said “Beware the gratitude of Princes…”? Jeez, I just reread your comment, are you REALLY saying you ‘enjoyed” My Lai??? Crikey, you are a real unit, mate!

  76. It’s about time someone stands up to the zionistic BULLSHIT that get pumps out by the mass media



  78. The human condition is such that we have seen the violation of peoples rights throughout history. Aristotle states that the cause of conflict is that the ‘other felt slighted by the other’, and did not resolve this adequeately. It is the case of the beastly characteristic of the human condition prevailing. My opinion is to analyse each act accordingly, if there was no resolution initially whose to blame? If warfare is not conducted appropiately, whose to blame? If a few individuals from hizbollah killed innocent people then ask them to be accountable for it and the direct superiors who oversees them and the same applies for the people of israel. Intellect must prevail and blame is not going to bring resolve. Your wrong I am right, is not going to assist the situation, just provide ammusement to our minds (the devil in the details). There is too much that has gone on and far too little ‘sound’ information to paint a picture of what has gone on. Peace out folks!

  79. Those who do not heed the lessons of history,
    are doomed to repeat historical mistakes.

    Something to think about.

    Jews have come into conflict with their neighbors throughout history (Mesopotamia, Palestine, Egypt, Palestine, Persia, Rome, Spain, England, France,
    Spain again Germany, recently Russia and Palestine again,
    and in the process, America.),
    and they were central to the Class Wars of the 1900’s, and they are aggressively instigating the Religious Wars of the 2000’s.

    Europe was brought out of the Dark Ages when Europeans encountered the Muslim cultures.

    It is interesting to see that after their Class Wars were discredited and the Native Russians regained control of their government, Jews start a phony “Free Jews” scam and hundreds of thousands of the central figures in the Class Wars migrated to Israel and America at the American taxpayers expense, and as can be seen they are systematically instigating the Religious Wars in the media and on the Net.

  80. I knew anti-Semitism ran deep in libertarianism but had no idea it was as deep, hateful, and misleading about a group of people as expressed here.

    You racists and haters of Jews are no better than the White Aryans, Ku Klux Klan or any of the Muslim racist hate groups in the USA and around the world.

    The remarks here are seriously damaging the legitimacy and the very future of libertarianism and will make those that read this site for the first time believe the LP is a racist organization.

    I am a white son of the South (Georgia), grew up in a segregated society, and went through the Civil Rights movement but have never seen or experienced the blatant and open hatred of a group of people as some of you are showing.

    If I were a Jew, the LP would never get my support or vote with this kind of garbage and vile venom some of you are expressing.

    Who’s next to blame for all the problems? How about Greek Orthodox or Italian Catholics. Even better, the damn Indians.

  81. Hmm, it looks like the comments have taken a turn for the ALL-CAPS!!! and racial and ethnic slurs.

    Very persuasive.

  82. It appears some of you need to have scape goats to blame for the world’s problems and problems in the USA. I guess you believe the myth that somehow Jews also control all the banks, commerce, precious metals, etc.

    Just remember, when your ass is in a sling such as being arrested for a serious crime or you have a brain tumor, who do you run to? Most of you will want a Jewish lawyer or Jewish brain surgeon to save your sorry asses.

    The Jews have been the keepers of written history (scribes) for thousands of years and played a huge role in preserving factual history during the dark and middle ages.

    There is no way any of you can convince me that this does not smack of Jew bashing as has been the case for thousands of years. When people have had problems such as wars, suppression of freedoms, tyranny, plagues, starvation and all other maladies, it has been convenient for others to finds a scape goat which have been Jews through the ages. Now you are doing the same.

  83. Hmm, it looks like the comments have taken a turn for the ALL-CAPS!!! and racial and ethnic slurs.

    Very persuasive.

    Yeah, I’m convienced that some of these comments are from people playing around to get a rise of others as a joke. I’m halfway tempted at this point to create a sockpuppet myself and start a “KILL WHITEY!!!” rant or two.

  84. What this stupid shit knows about Islam and organization like Hizbollah, Al-Qaeda, LeT, SIMI, Mujahideen….. just to name a few. Islamis evil and supporter of Islam are evils and stupid bastards. Whoever support these Islam fanatics will be killed

  85. Ali — No offense, but please forgive this atheist for praying you have no voice that will ever be heard by the mainstream world.

    That sort of rhetoric we hardly need.

  86. Am laffin’ so hard have forgotten what thread was about, Torfinn! Given that Lebanon (or indeed Gaza) are not really FUNCTIONING States (a bit like what’s outside the Green Zone in Iraq) should not Libertarians be rooting for ‘that which is LESS than a State’? I mean, in “V for Vendetta” were you rooting for the State, OR V? Here is a highly organised, militaristic State versus raggedy arse defenders. F16s, Apache choppers, Abrams tanks, a Navy, for Gods’ sake, against AK47s and some 30 year old rockets you can’t even aim…who is killing the most civilians? Proportionality, anyone?

  87. GreginOz — let’s not forget that they’re actually holding their own.

    First opponant of the Israeli military to ever do that, even partially.

  88. Maybe men have too much power. I don’t think women care so much about who dominates. But enough about this blog.

    What would happen if these countries used proportional representation? I’d vote for the candidate in favor of peace and coexistence and I have to think a large number of people in the area would, too (assuming moms and dads vote). It’s the winner-take-all mentality that’s a problem. They need a new sport.

    My city council behaves as if there’s a wall around the city (e.g., “we must have low-income housing”), but most of the citizens cross the border daily without caring or even knowing. Individuality and individual rights would go a long way to dissolving this conflict between countries.

  89. read some of your posts, dont know enough to comment.
    Can anyone recommend something to read around this?
    Both sides please, history history history………..
    I am uninformed and people like George G are immenseley articulate but are they informed?

    Dont trust him myself, but am I wrong?

  90. George Galloway is entirely write in saying what he said in that interview. Hezbollah is not in fact a terrorist organisation but a political party with a military. Israel have captured hundreds of innocent Lebanese (and Palestinians but thats a different matter) and detained them in Israeli prisons. The media haven’t exactly reported on that have they? However 2 Israeli soldiers were captured and it gets huge media attention and Israel starts a war.

  91. Also the only countries that do NOT back an immediate ceasefire (apart from Israel)are the UK and USA, so only two world leaders (one of them with an IQ of about 50 and one of them a poodle) actually agree with Israel’s military action.

  92. Israeli has always for some strange reason been the favorite child of the USA. Why? I have no idea. Maybe this is due to the strong evangical influnce in american policy. Israel also gives the USA a foothold in oil rich area. I am not saying the islamic run countries are any better, but the USA would be better off if they cut aid (military and otherwise) to this region.

  93. george ghoulaway loves to hear the sound of his own voice – a braying narcissist and demagogue

    his specialty is knocking down strawmen – who said that Arab lives are less important than any other lives????? the simple fact is, if Arab terrorism stopped, then there would be a Palestinian state decades ago. if somebody had the temerity of breaking into george gallow’s home, I leave it to the reader’s imagination how george would act.

    alas, given most people’s gallowbility, rhetoric trumps reason.

  94. well said!! stupid sky reporter! she has noo clue about the roots of the crisis, just another half wit on sky news, 100% support for George!

  95. Well Done, Mr Galloway. your brave attitude to tell the truth about zionist terrorism is commnedable. You are 100 times better than those Arab leaders, who give lip services to the Palestinians and Lebananis who fight the agressors. Your roaring words are a warning to these so-called pro-Zinost media also.Keep it up.

  96. When ever any one comes out to say the truth about this issue on any of the mass media tools, someone (like Julian #114) will jump to say that he is anti jew or anti semitic,…etc.

    I think one of the main reasons behind this is that people are only used to the one sided stories they read and watch, so it is about time that someone like Mr. Galloway to come out and speak the truth that the whole world knows but never gets a mention on those tools.

  97. The “truth” as Galloway preaches it, is the truth of bullies, not the truth of those who seek a better world for all people. He is a hatemonger and a clown, and some people fall for him because they don’t know any better. The only person that Galloway really respects is himself. We are in an era where trustworthy leaders are rare, but demagogues are a penny a dozen.

    CALL HIM ANTI-JEW….90% of people on this site are anti-arab so it doesnt even matter…

  99. You all talk, on this site, as if you know what is happening in Lebanon. I know what is happening here and i am living in this country. For such a guy, i admire his courage talking on live television about such a sentitive subject. On the other hand, his lack of courtesy disgusts me. He got his point across but in a very dirty way, a debate does not go on that way. Secondly, Hezbolla is a militia group in Lebanon that is armed. They have more power than the goverment and are having enormous amount of members born everyday, such a group definately should stay in the country since they represent the shia’a religion BUT weapons should not be in their hands.Only the goverment should have the weapons because 2 forces will lead to a bit conflict. Before, the Lebanese christian militia had weapons (Lebanese Forces) but they gave them in when the goverment got an army. Now its hezbolla’s turn. They should be present in the goverment politicaly but not with weapons.They arent the lebanese army!

  100. ………… Continuing………

    This is why israel is trying to fight hezbolla.

    The point that the man made though at the end! Israeli blood is worth more that lebanese blood is definately true. Everyone in this world is equal. Jesus said it so did every good man.
    Hitler did not think so and caused a calamity on this earth. We shuold learn from evil men’s mistakes. Lets charish every one’s life please because we are all born equal and we will all die equal. A human might not be as strong or as smart as another one BUT his right to live cannot be overwritten by someone else. He deserves to live as much as the smarter or the stronger. It is his right not a priviledge.

    Both sides are wrong and its a war… they will both lose and their will be not victor.

  101. Good grief…i have new found respect for the scots…hell raisers-if they want to be..im a muslim form india and believe me its very confusing trying to figure out whose right..hell neither are …but at least ol’ george makes damned certain that noone winds up thinking that israel and bush are as pure as baptising water…

  102. injustice is dragging the whole world in to a state of war.the conflict in middle east is becoming a headache for all of us.we must speak and promote justice.double standard will have fire at our door steps sooner or later.people who are fighting for their coutry which has been snatched by others can not be labelled as terrorist.all the pressures are to stop the supply of missiles to hizabullah.while israel has the most mechanised tanks,artellary,latest air force but still need a fresh supply of cluster bombs through prestwick.no where in the world you would see young boys fighting against the tanks with stones in their hands.are these children having ,TRAUMATIC CHILHOOD ? what do the world expect them to become when they grow up.by the way this trama has been going on for more than forty years.think and act before it is too late

  103. Children should never be used as soldiers. In the west we are not perfect but we don’t indoctrinate children to hate, and we don’t use children to fight the adults’ wars. This is a wise attitude, and it is something that every country in the world should ‘import’ from the west.
    Every culture has something valuable to teach. How about we learn wisdom from wherever we can find it?
    E.g., in Arab cultures, hospitality is wonderful. Something else we can all learn.