Arizona Libertarians, Immigration Protests, and Mexican Libertarians

Libertarians are joining in the immigration protests in Arizona. Not only are they passing out cards to the protesters, they seem to have some high level support from the other side of the border. From FMNN:

These “Philosophia de Libertad” (Philosophy of Liberty) cards will contain links to websites containing further information, including a flash presentation on the basic principles of free society. The cards are being handed out by local Libertarian activist Ernest Hancock and the Representante del Gobernador de Sonora, Ricardo Valenzuela, along with a number of their friends, family members, and fellow liberty-activists.

Hancock is a current candidate for Secretary of State of Arizona, as well as a contender for the Chairmanship of the national Libertarian Party. Valenzuela was appointed by the Governor of Sonora, Mexico, as his official Representative in Arizona, and has also reportedly been published in several newspapers in Mexico as an open libertarian and has sparked a growing libertarian movement there among the young.

He reportedly says his actions in this event have the support of Governor Bours. When he was appointed, Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano remarked she was “unhappy that Sonoran Governor Eduardo Bours would select a Republican” as his representative. Ricardo immediately corrected her, declaring, “I’m a libertarian.” Hancock, who is the publisher of the e-zine and website, announced that Valenzuela (and perhaps Governor Bours) will be writing Spanish-language articles for the multilingual publication.

Whenever the libertarian movement seems to slow down for a couple of days, one can always count on the Arizona crew to stir up the pot a little bit.

Stephen Gordon

I like tasteful cigars, private property, American whiskey, fast cars, hot women, pre-bailout Jeeps, fine dining, worthwhile literature, low taxes, original music, personal privacy and self-defense rights -- but not necessarily in this order.

  1. I personally think that libertarians and the LP should be embracing immigrants. Their numbers are huge and I think the libertarian philosophy would be appealing to them.

  2. The libertarians and the LP can’t embrace minorities who are Americans and you think they should embrace immigrants? Another pipe dream wasted.

  3. As I’ve replied to that complaint before, Chris, they do embrace them. The problem is that nobody knows about it. The LP has made many important defenses of minorities but the problem with the message is in its silence. It does absolutely no good to have great ideas on paper filed away in a box somewhere.

    This all goes back to the stupid concept that the Party is a bottom-to-top organization. No leadership, no vision, no results.

    I think Badnarik’s positions on Black enterprise were outstanding. But instead of referring to them, we should have about 200 libertarians, some black community leaders and a camera crew marching with sandwich boards in front of the county commission that runs hair braiders out of business. We could certainly make a hell of a racket about the bigoted nature of the drug war, as well.

    As we could about the design of the welfare system that deliberately keeps minorities poor.
    Sadly, leadership is broken from the top down (at least down here).

  4. I think we should certainly embrace immigrants, but not illegal immigrants. There’s quite a stark difference there.

    We want to make it easier for law abiding people to enter the country legally, and I think a large number of people agree with that stance.

    Illegal immigrants are totally different, however. That problem can be solved by limiting social services(except life saving medical care) for people who are not here legally, and by punishing businesses that employ illegal workers, not just fiscally, but criminally.

    I do, however, totally disagree with the current bill in the senate to make illegal immigration a felony. Not the principle of it being a felony, but the bill essentially removes due process, and makes the only way to prove your legality through a court. But without due process, you don’t get a court date! Isn’t that convenient? A person could essentially be deported for not looking white enough!

  5. I would venture to guess that the vast majority aren’t coming here to suck the welfare nipple. It is very obvious to me, living in Texas, that they are here to work. To make a better life for themselves. What is more libertarian than that? So no, the solution is not the end to welfare (although that would be nice), but an end to a ridiculously complex immigration system. I don’t blame them for being here illegally.

    The LP should embrace them and promise to make them legal citizens if elected.

  6. That problem can be solved by limiting social services(except life saving medical care) for people who are not here legally, and by punishing businesses that employ illegal workers, not just fiscally, but criminally.

    What makes “life saving medical care” so much more different? Are you saying you should be forced to save their lives?

    and by punishing businesses that employ illegal workers, not just fiscally, but criminally.

    It should not be the responsibility of the business owner to check every employee for every possibly whimsical morality deficit that doesn’t fit your perfect world. Has the business violated anyone’s rights by hiring an illegal alien?

    Given today’s immigration rules, most of our forefather’s wouldn’t have immigrated here either – at least not legally.

  7. The LP should support strengthening the borders, yes, but most definitely should support the arrival of anyone who is willing to work for a living. We can make huge inroads among minorities with our stances; the sad fact is that we’re not. I wholeheartedly agree with Chris Bennett that we need to be doing more among Latinos and blacks to win their support, and this is a good start. We’ve got no less than a representative of the Sonoran government supporting us in a critical area; we’ll have a strong Libertarian candidate for governor there this fall; things look like they’re about to go very well for the Arizona LP.

  8. You make a good point, Mike. Business owners shouldn’t be forced to check to see if their workers are citizens or green card holders. I didn’t think of it that way.

    As for being forced to save lives, I’m not sure what you mean. Whether you are an illegal immigrant or not if you are dying and go to a hospital, they will do what they can to save your life as per the hippocratic oath, and if you can’t afford to pay that cost is passed on to everyone else, but I don’t agree that physicians are “forced” to save lives. It’s just what they do. I simply meant a person shouldn’t be precluded from such practice just for being an illegal.

    True, most people come to this country to work, not for social welfare systems, but people do end up using public schools and other systems at the taxpayer expense. The obvious solution is to eliminate public schools and social welfare programs entirely, but until that is done, what do we do in the meantime about taxes paying for non-citizens?

  9. Now if only we could get a candidate up to run against Senator Kyl at some point… egads.

  10. Maybe we should issue social security cards and drivers licenses to those now living in Mexico. Why not take it one step further and give them the right to vote in our elections? Maybe we should move the entire LP to Mexico so we can prepare ourselves for success by soliciting the Mexican vote. Once that is done, we can move into Canada and do the same.

    Why stop in North America. Let’s spread the message to South America and once that is done, go world wide. Why not? We are not doing that well with voters in the USA in the present but may be able to entice others internationally to vote for us.

  11. The obvious solution is to eliminate public schools and social welfare programs entirely, but until that is done, what do we do in the meantime about taxes paying for non-citizens?

    Nothing. They pay taxes now. What makes you think they don’t?

  12. Not only do working illegals usually pay income tax (albeit often under an assumed SS#), but they also pay federal and state taxes every time they buy a gallon of gas, a beer, or a pack of cigarettes. Add this to the tax they pay when registering their vehicles and pay a phone bill. As any combination of the above is paid by nearly everyone, how absurd does it sound that certain classes of people “don’t pay taxes?”

  13. Oh, I know they pay taxes, Mike, every tax except possibly the income tax, which if someone can get away with not paying it, good for them.

    I didn’t say they didn’t pay taxes, I said that the taxes of Americans are paying for non-citizens.

  14. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. – The late U.S. Senator from Arizona, Barry Goldwater (written by Karl Hess)

    The United States is a nation of laws, badly written and randomly enforced. – Frank Zappa

    More laws, less justice. – Marcus Tullius Ciceroca (42 BC)

    An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. – Thomas Paine (1795)

    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. – Henry David Thoreau

    In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place. – Mohandas Gandhi

    There comes a time when a moral man can’t obey a law which his conscience tells him is unjust. – Martin Luther King, Jr.

    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt. – Elizabeth Cady Stanton

    If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson

    Where Liberty dwells, there is my country. – Benjamin Franklin

  15. Paul,

    Bullshit. Very few people/businesses hire workers without a W-4. The documents they use to accompany the W-4 might not be theirs, but they pay income taxes whether CNN wants you to believe it or not.

  16. Immigrants, on average, have a higher employment rate than do native born Americans. Time for people to drop the “welfare” canard. See:

  17. Mike,
    That’s why I said “except possibly.” There are some illegal immigrants who don’t pay income tax just like there are some citizens who don’t pay income tax. My point was I didn’t disagree that they pay taxes. I think you’re taking me a little out of context.

    I’m not closed border, I’m just a little apprehensive about non-citizens receiving the same benefits(I of course believe they should have all the same rights) that citizens receive because it reminds me a little of foreign aid. I would agree any problems as a result of that are small compared to the larger problems. Health care and government services to illegals aren’t the problem, health care and government services in general are.

    However, I did just realize I’m apprehensive because of all the undocumented people in this country, when my own end goals are that no one should have to be documented. Can you tell I’m new at this?

    A whole slew of people who live under the govt rader. You know what? Maybe I’m just jealous.

  18. Mike, that’s why I said “except possibly”. I agree in general that illegals pay taxes, but some don’t pay the income tax, just like some Americans don’t pay the income tax. It’s the only avoidable tax, that’s all I meant.