Pro-terrorist Church

The IRS wants to punish a church for not spreading pro-government propoganda:

The IRS cited The Times story’s description of the sermon as a “searing indictment of the Bush administration’s policies in Iraq” and noted that the sermon described “tax cuts as inimical to the values of Jesus.”

One subject of the church sums it up interestingly:

“In a government that leans so heavily on religious values, that they would pull a stunt like this, it makes me heartsick.”

  1. This is an interesting issue of the “separation of church and state” issue (which, btw, IS NOT mentioned in the constitution, despite how many times this false information is spread). My take is that a church claiming tax-exempt status is suicide. Why? Because then you essentially hand over your rights as a church and become subject to the government.

    What a scam.

    The government has no business in church affairs unless you claim 501(c)3 and thus make it their business!

    Here’s what the supreme court had to say in one instance

    Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947)
    The “establishment of religion” clause of the First Amendment means at least this: neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining [330 U.S. 16] or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups, and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect “a wall of separation between church and State.

    sounds reasonable to me

  2. I have been waiting for this. I knew it was going to happen I just didn’t know when.

    There is no seperation of Church and state. I had this debate when I brought a Bible to school one time. I was threatened so I brought in a copy of the Constitution and asked the other something like this “Where the hell does it say anything about Seperation of Church and state.” They refused to look at the Constitution. I begin reading Article one Section 8 and announced at the end “Federal involment in education in unconstitution so sue them not me.” Congress cannot create a Church.

    “The government has no business in church affairs unless you claim 501(c)3 and thus make it their business!”

    I agree, the IRS is evil they are the force the government uses to scare the people.

  3. It may not say it “specifically” however the reason for the seperation is not to keep you from believing what you wish… it is to keep you from forcing children to bend to a specific doctrine through mandate of the king (president).

    This is an interesting summation on the actual ideal that prompted the phrase “separation of church and state”. It may not be said specifically but it is VERY much a part of our rights.

    NO… this does not mean you are not allowed to bring your bible to school or work. However, you should not expect to be able to give a sermon to your co-workers. Which once happened at my current place of employment which made everyone VERY uncomfortable and leave the lunch room.

    “In the United States, separation of church and state is governed by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and by legal precedents, some quite controversial, interpreting that clause. Many other democratic governments around the world have similar clauses in their respective constitutions. The actual term, “separation of church and state”, does not appear in the constitution, but rather comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. Ulysses S. Grant also called for Americans to “Keep the church and state forever separate.”
    Separation of church and state
    See Also:
    Jefferson’s Wall of Separation Letter
    Current, Separation of Church and State

    The LA Times article actually brought a smile to my face. I was absolutely amazed that a Christian was against this 4th crusade. I am shocked and amazed!

  4. OpenTorrent,

    I think you’re missing the point. The 1st amendment doesn’t shield you seeing religion. That guy giving you a sermon in front of you at work would have been just as inappproriate if he was reading Playboy fan mail or the early writings of Malcolm X.

    You shouldn’t expect to be able to give a sermon about ANY topic to anyone. You have the right to say it, they have the right to tell you to STFU or walk away. If you’re behavoir becomes intolerable, then a line might be crossed. But simply saying “you can’t preach” is not true. That line of reasoning would be way too difficult to draw a line with.

  5. Tax-exempt organizations should not be political or deal with politics at all. There is too much abuse that can come from it.

    As much as I hate the IRS and love freedom of speech, I am not outraged by this. If the church wants to deal in politics, that is their right, but they should give up their tax exempt status as a result.

    Of course, we should not have a need for tax exempt organizations in the first place, but that is another argument.

  6. Rick… I believe either I misconveyed my thoughts or you misunderstood… either way no biggie.

    I believe that you should believe what you wish. You can read the bible all you want in the break room… you can discuss it… I don’t care… I and MANY others had an issue with it being thrust upon us. Nothing more… nothing less. Perhaps I was too combative in my previous statement… to each his own my friend…