Debating Dad on Iraq

It’s not every son who’s lucky enough that his dad reads his blog. So when my dad reponded with a long-winded comment, I read it in full and thought about it for a while. Some of you may not realize it, but my dad is more of a Reagan Republican, which is to say he’s for smaller and less intrusive government at home, and more proactive foreign policy abroad.

Well enought with the intro, you can read his original comment here. Oh wait, I just read it a third time …

Must … resist … urge … to … fisk …… Aw fuck it:

The elections in Iraq goes to show that freedom and democracy can be spread by violence and force using the good old US military. Watch out world!

So in other words: the ends justify the means? That’s an interesting sentiment to have and I wonder just what means he would endorse in order to justify a peaceful democratic world. Perhaps we could pull our troops out of the Middle East completely and wontonly bomb them all into peacful compliance with our doctrine, after all the end result would no doubt be much more peaceful. Or perhaps we could just eradicate anyone who has shifty eyes and dark skin, eventually they would get the message. I know it’s hyperbole, but I think he is treading dangerous grounds when he support an “ends justify the means” type doctrine, after all, history has taught us that any nation that upholds this kind of Orwellian ideal has eventually committed some pretty heinous attrocities along the way that were never looked upon kindly in the end.

Since we are now next door neighbors of Syria and Iran, we can take them out one at a time. Real excitement would be to go after both countries at the same time.

Or, perhaps we can focus on organization that’s actually attacked us successfully: Al Qaida. I don’t seem to hear that name a whole lot anymore and it’s beginning to worry me. When’s the last time you heard Bush say we were going to get him “dead or alive” or that “we won’t rest in the hunt to find him”

This should scare Saudia Arabia into democracy if it does not, then go after them too.

Actually, the chance of Saudi Arabia being in line for Bush’s M.E. doctrine seem slim and nil. It’s actually a wonder that we have such strong relations with them considering the fact that the aristocrats in that country continue to contribution to terrorists organizations such as Al Qaida. Pakistan is in a similar state of affairs, but with the government class more careful of their support (though undoubtedly it’s there).

If North Korea thinks we are spread thin when we go after our neighbors in the Middle East, we just nuke them into the next millenium. The rationale for nukes – N. Korea has them and will not hesitate to use them.

This is just bizarre. To date, the U.S. is the only country to have ever used nukes (I’m not passing judgement here) against another country, and there’s no proof that Kim Jung Il has any desire to use his nuclear program for anything other than leverage. Much like any tin-pot dictator, his bark is worse than his bite (with the exception of his own people), because he’s afraid of losing power. My bet is that China will annex DPRK at some point and oust this dictator. Besides, if we simply wanted to neuter North Korea’s aggresivenes and spark revolution, we could simply kill the leader there. You can bet China would freak out if we did some shit like that though.

I don?Äôt believe we have to worry about our old enemies such as China and Russia. We capitalize those countries and let the old ex-commie geezers accumulate the same wealth as our own capitalist tycoons have in the good old USA.

China finances our debt by buying our bonds, if they stopped financing it because of political or more likely, economic reasons, they would be hurt as well as us, but at some point they are going to realize that the U.S. government will not be able to repay it’s debt. The irony here is that we killed the U.S.S.R. by outspending them, but at the same time we racked up huge debts (and are still loading up on) that we now owe to another Communist country.

Even with all its defects and flaws, this is the only place in the world I would ever want to claim citizenship. I pity those that find it necessary to only find the worse with this great country (whether it be politicians or citizens) by only traveling in the sewers and constantly criticizing those that try to make a difference.

I agree and disagree. This is still a great country and was founded on essential individual liberty, however those same men warned that we must always remain vigilant and look out for those that would try and make us give our liberties away or take them away. The men that would take them away (and their actions) are of course, usually found in the sewers or are the men that hold power. Or both.

The rest of the comment, I decline to fisk, because I agree he has the same rights as everyone else in this country, even the “right to be wrong.”

Now, I don’t want to make it a habit to fisk my own dad when he comments, but since it was such a long response, I had to go with my gut.

Stephen VanDyke

I've published HoT along with about 300+ friends since 2002. We're all Americans who are snarky and love our country. I'm a libertarian that registered Republican because I like to win elections. That's pretty much it.

  1. Sorry, but your dad is pissing me off… why doesnt he go and fight it! How about all of the armchair general republican assholes go and fight it…. with his thinking, the world would be a much more free and peaceful place without them(republicans).
    How about we just make powerful mind drugs mandatory for the world?… the world would be a “free” and peaceful place then…

    Equilibrium –
    is a good movie to watch to see how the future will be like with those assholes still running things…

    Slavery is Freedom, right?


    In response to Jeremiah, what makes you believe I am a Republican? If it is little “r” republican, then you are somewhat correct. This should really tick you off. I believe every person owes this great nation some personal time such as serving in the military. If it requires the draft be reinstated to force pea brains that cannot see beyond their own personal selfishness, then so be it. I place you in the pea brain class.

    If a person can truly prove he (she) is a CO, then serve in some capacity that does not require the bearing of arms.

    When I was in Vietnam in the infantry, the best Medics were CO’s based on religious persuasion. They were true heroes saving the lives of fallen comrades as well as fallen enemy. What say you? Do you enjoy your little pea brain freedom enough to be man enough to sacrifice some of your time to serve your fellow man for at least two years in some honorable capacity or are you too self centered and selfish to only serve yourself and your petty wants? Are you a taker from society or do you have what it takes to give something back to your fellow man?

    It disturbs me that my generation has failed to rear real men and women. I agree my generation must accept the blame for the failures that we see in your generation. How do I know you are in that generation? By your ignorant way of communicating and choice of words to express yourself.

  3. If a free America were ever subjected to attack, most Americans would be more than willing to defend themselves, their homes, and their families against the foreign aggressors. The very fact that too few Americans are volunteering to fight the war in Iraq illustrates that too few Americans view the actions being taken by our government as integral to the preservation of our freedoms. This is simply the free market working. In contrast, hardly anyone (and must less anyone libertarian) has qualms with the war against Al Qaida, who did indeed attack the U.S. and has yet to be eradicated.

    As Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) has said, “To many politicians the American government is America and patriotism means working for the benefit of the state.” Thus, on a crude level, the draft appeals to patriotic fervor. This, according to Congressman Paul, is why the idea of compulsory national service, whether in the form of military conscription or make-work programs like AmeriCorps, still sells on Capitol Hill. Conscription is wrongly associated with patriotism, when it really represents collectivism and involuntary servitude.

    Ronald Reagan said it best: “The most fundamental objection to draft registration is moral.” He understood that conscription assumes our nation’s young people belong to the state. Yet America was founded on the opposite principle; that the state exists to serve the individual. The notion of involuntary servitude, in whatever form, is simply incompatible with a free society.

  4. Julian,

    I dont appreciate being called a pea brain. I can tell “by your ignorant way of communicating” that you ARE an asshole and aren’t as smart as you would believe. In addition, I am in the military… you asshole. I would proudly destroy any enemy that wants to destroy my home too… Iraq didnt do anything to me or us. Who are all these pansy old people that are scared of these terrorists anyways?…. what of that generation? Im sure that my generation is much less scared of them… we have less to lose in this sick ass world that the old people have given to us.
    I dont appreciate people like you supporting sending people like me off to die for nothing.
    How about I piss you off?…. I think Vietnam was bullshit too. I wish that none of you had to go and die for nothing… maybe that makes me a bad, pea brained child….

  5. Because I chose to work here in country and not serve does not make me any less of an American. When the towers fell I was a tinder keg! If it had been an invasion I would have fought them with any and every means at my disposal.

    Our generation is NOT weak, I think that some are confused but I look at our elders on that one. You were correct Julian, it is a partial fault of your generation, for not protesting Vietnam as a nation, though I do appreciate & respect the ‘honorable’ soldiers that fought there. I specifically blame the “quiet generation”. I hate to play the blame game though, after all how can you blame a generation that grew up with World War 2 propaganda influencing them.

    I choose to stay here with my family. I choose to experience my children maturing. I choose to live my life in a way that I believe in. I choose not to serve in the military. This is choice, and it is one basic foundation of our nation.

    To draft, is to steal choice. None have this authority!