Vermont Congressional Candidate: Arrest Bush and Cheney

Dennis Morrisseau, Independent Congressional candidate in Vermont, is calling for the arrest of Bush and Cheney in the event they illegaly invade Iran:

The antiwar Vietnam vet is a Republican, but he has won approval from the State of Vermont to run on the ballot line “Impeach Bush Now,” rather than Democrat or Republican.

[…]

Morrisseau said any order for an attack upon Iran or to deploy naval forces to its coastal waters is illegal, and called upon officers of the American military to “First, refuse to obey such an order. If the president persists and insists on ordering our forces into combat in or over Iran without a formal Declaration of War, then I call upon you, General Pace, as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and upon such other military officers as clearly see their duty in these circumstances to detain both the President and Vice President, until such time as the Congress shall act.”

Morrisseau is running for Vermont’s at-large seat vacated by socialist Bernie Sanders, who has held the seat since 1991 as an Independent. Although Morrisseau helped create the socialist Liberty Union Party, he claims to have been a Republican until recently in an interview with Daryl Bradford Smith. He first entered this race as a Republican, but dropped out of the primary to run as an Independent.

Liberty Union candidate Jane Newton, Independent candidate Keith Stern and two representatives from the mega-party are also in the race.

posted by disinter
  • DAP

    Wow, what a nutjob.

  • http://www.tom-hanna.org Tom Hanna

    Encouraging coups now?

  • Nelson Lennon

    Good for you Mr Morrisseau. You have my vote. 100%
    Besides, If we arrest GW Bush, lock him up and waterboard him, he’ll have nothin to worry about if he’s innocent..
    However, if the current law regarding terrorism is passed, we won’t even have to tell him why he’s being executed.
    Forward March.

  • cool bananas

    LOL – GREAT POINT, THAT FOOL DUBYA HAS JUST DUG HIS OWN GRAVE

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Encouraging coups now?

    Counter-coup.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Yes, counter-coup. You beat me to it, paulie.

  • Chuck

    His hair sucks. He’d look better in one of those Art Garfunkel wigs.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Curiously, the guy claims to be a “former Republican.” Wonder what his Republican credentials actually were. Many people join or vote in party primaries of partys that they despise just to influence the outcome. Example: vote for the most leftist Democrat in the Dem primary, so that the Republican will have a better shot in the Fall.

    Bet that’s the case with this guy. Or, he registered Republican for a month just so that for the rest of his life he could claim he’s a “former Republican.”

    If I saw some evidence that he was for tax cuts, or for school vouchers, or some other conservative cause I might believe him.

    But he seems like just a leftist kook.

    Libertarians should stay as far away from this guy as possible.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Why? Because he’s for the libertarian cause of non-aggression? Who cares if he is for a “conservative” (i.e. fascist) cause. Maybe he doesn’t qualify to be a member of your Libertarian Nazi Caucus, but I don’t see anything int his blog post that discredits his Republican or Libertarian credentials.

  • Timothy West

    Bruce Guthrie just loaned his own campaign 1.2 million dollars, basically, every dime he could get his hands on.

    http://thirdpartywatch.com/2006/10/01/guthrie-adds-12-million/

  • Matt C.

    And the kooks start to worship this guy…

  • disinter

    I completely agree with Morrisseau on the issues of impeachment and arrest.

  • Andy

    “Curiously, the guy claims to be a ‘former Republican.'”

    He must have woken up to the fact that the RepubliCON Party is controlled by fascist scum.

    The Bush administration should be put on trial for treason and crimes against humanity.

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Well, unfortunately the “undeclared war” horse is long sense out of the barn. I don’t think there’s much Constitutional justification for arresting the President for attempting to prosecute an unconstitutional war, but getting Congress to stand up for its own privilege to wage war would be a good place to start.

    Vietnam really started a slippery slope that’s turned into a cliff. Also, the Founders assumed that Congress as such would be jealous of its prerogatives; they never envisioned that Congress would meekly stand by as its power is flouted by the executive, just because the POTUS happens to be from the same party (party loyalty being concept that as I understand it was pretty much frowned upon to the Framers).

  • disinter

    I don’t think there’s much Constitutional justification for arresting the President for attempting to prosecute an unconstitutional war,

    Huh?

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    Perhaps this guy was a Republican before they devolved into the Fascist, Nuke-Em All Party. But, actually he doesn’t look quite old enough for that to be the case.

  • http://UnCivilDefence.blogspot.com MRJarrell

    Well, the best advice is to vote for this guy if there’s no Libertarian on the ticket. Why? Because Donderooooo said not to, that’s why.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    The “RepubliCon” Party is “Fascist scum” huh?

    I guess that explains why 5 Libertarians in Vermont are currently running on the Republican ticket this year for State House and have an excellent shot of winning.

    Guess that also explains why Don Gorman is about to be elected to the New Hampshire State House AS A REPUBLICAN!!

    If the Republicans are such scum than why is it that they allow our Libertarian candidates to run on their ticket and win?

    I don’t see any Libertarians getting elected as Democrats.

    30 Libertarian State Legislators and about 5 to 6 Congressman now elected as Republicans.

    Zero as Democrats.

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    Sure Eric, there are a few exceptions, i.e. Ron Paul and Don Gorman (the Vermonters you refer to weren’t allowed to run as Libertarians). But, by and large, the Republican Party is not the friend of liberty (and we know your definition of libertarian is rather a stretch), not that the Democratic Party is either. By the way, Frank Gonzales is a libertarian running a solid campaign in Florida as a Democrat.

  • http://www.myspace.com/undercover_anarchist undercover_anarchist

    Democrats are scum too.

    But they’re scum that’s out of power, which is intrinsically not as bad as scum that is IN power.

  • DAP

    I can’t believe this is even considered news. There are all kinds of crazy people in the world who say crazy things. Just because this guy is running for office, he all of a sudden becomes newsworthy? I think not.

  • Mike G

    Arrest Bush and Cheney? Cant wait to see the response of Pastor Becky and her band of Nazis at the Jesus Camp…..

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    LOL @ Mike G! That might be just enough for Becky to put her little jihadists into action!

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Mike (#15),

    To be clearer, I don’t know that the Constitution actually prescribes a remedy when the POTUS gets it in his head to declare an unconstitutional war. Certainly cutting off the funding would be a good way for Congress to deal with such a situation, so until they show willingness to take that action to defend their Constitutional powers, anything else is superfluous. And obviously there’s impeachment, since impersonating the legislative branch is probably included among “high crimes and misdemeanors”.

    It might also be legitimate for the military command, who after all has sworn to defend the Constitution, to refuse to fight an unconsitutional war.

  • Seth

    Eric:
    Yes, there are Libertarians getting elected as Democrats, at least here in New Hampshire. (and Florida as mentioned)

    Don Gorman is running as a Republican, because we have a quite large libertarian wing here in the NH Republican party. Not the whole party by any means, but a wing of it. That wing is getting bigger, in part because of the 2 party stranglehold. My personal prediction is that the strangehold is breaking and 3rd parties will thrive in NH in the next few years… making for very interesting primaries too..

  • George King

    We’ve killed at least 50,000 terrorist men women and children,
    and we’ll keep killing until these islamic facists realise us christians are the only peaceful religion.

  • Feebles

    Didn’t that guy play a baddie in a 70s flick?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Seth, thanks for agreeing with me. Thanks for pointing out to others on this Forum that there’s a “large libertarian wing in the New Hampshire GOP.”

    Bet those here who try to say that libertarians and Republicans are not compatible will now be silent, and will ignore your remark.

    You mention some “libertarian Democrats” in the New Hampshire Legislature. I know of Steve Villaincourt who was elected on both the Libertarian and Democrat lines in 1998, who has subsequently changed to REPUBLICAN. But besides Villaincourt can you give me a name of an elected “Libertarian Democrat”?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Robert,

    “Only a few…” elected libertarians as Republicans???

    There’s more like 30 state legislators and 5 or 6 Congressman. And most of them are current or former members of the Libertarian Party.

    That’s hardly a few.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Here’s an interesting question.

    George Phillies currently running for the Libertarian Party Presidential Nomination for 2008, is a rabid foaming at the mouth Republican-hater.

    He recently touted Don Gorman’s endorsement for his Presidential run.

    Wonder what he’s going to say when Don is elected on November 7 to the New Hampshire State House AS A REPUBLICAN???

    Will Phillies pull the Gorman endorsement?

  • http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/ Len

    An attack on Iran without a declaration of war by Congress would be an act of naked aggression and, as such, would violate the Nuremberg Principles which the US helped draft after WWII. Bush’s arbitrary assumption of the power to abrogate Nuremberg unilaterally is, itself impeachable and criminally prosecutable. Should the attack on Iran result in any death, Bush could be prosecuted ””under the law ””not only in the Haque but in US courts where he would be charged with violation US Codes, Title 18, Section 2441. That section describes a capital crime. In fact, Bush’s war against the civilian population of Iraq violates Geneva, Nuremberg and our own Section 2441. Put another way: there is probable cause NOW to try Bush for capital crimes. Whatever changes Congress may have approved with respect to the Geneva convention, the Nuremberg principles continue to obligate the US.

  • Seth

    Eric: George already knew that Don was running as a Republican… so what? Unlike you, he can tell the difference between individuals who are members of a party, and a Party and those who are part of the problem with it.
    NH’s libertarian wing is an exception to the nationwide rule, and they surely do not run the party here, either.

    As for elected Democrats, besides Vaillancourt, there are others likely this fall. The primary picked off a few. And Vaillancourt wavers between the parties, picking whichever is the least threat to his personal or economic freedoms at any given time.

  • IanC

    Essential Fact: Ideologically, the republican party & conservative “movement” is controlled wholesale by indigenous fundamentalist extremists.

    By definition they are the enemy of freedom.

    Once upon a time, the Republican Party was the “major party” to be wooed due to its hallmarks (however minor) of agreement with the LP; it was the one to attempt to sway.

    Today, that is the Democratic Party. Libertarians are ***NOT*** “more conservative than the GOP.” We aren’t conservatives at all. At least, not in the modern definition of the word.

    Any libertarian presence within the GOP is purely, wholly, and absolutely nothing more than infiltration of the enemy.

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    OK Eric, even if there are a few dozen elected Republicans who can legitimately be called “libertarian” and none such elected as Democrats, what does any of that have to do with the article? Mr. Morrisseau is running as an INDEPENDENT because he’s disgusted with the very NON-libertarian Bush administration. I remember you were stumping hard for Bush back in ’04. Are you still defending him simply because there happens to be a very small libertarian wing remaining in the Republican party?

  • IanC

    Also — I find it amusing that this guy’s text in the picture is quoted using the traditional font of comic-books.

    roflmao

  • David W

    I do not understand why the idea of prosecuting Bush & Cheney and calling for the military command to live up to its sworn duty to protect the Constitution of the United States as kooky!? Is this not what every red blooded American should be insisting on? Just because one may have a defeatist attitude on this subject one should not call others that firmly stand by their American principles as kooky. I guess in doing so that that could be described as kooky.

    It just maybe time for a counter coup. Lets face it, it is gonna happen some time. Better to get it over with now when there is less chance of blood shed then to pass the problem on to the next generation when the chance of a bloody coup increases.

  • Andy

    “George Phillies currently running for the Libertarian Party Presidential Nomination for 2008, is a rabid foaming at the mouth Republican-hater.

    He recently touted Don Gorman’s endorsement for his Presidential run.

    Wonder what he’s going to say when Don is elected on November 7 to the New Hampshire State House AS A REPUBLICAN???”

    So what? It is best to judge the actions of individuals rather than just look at party labels. Ron Paul is one of my favorite people and he was elected under the Republican Party banner. I like Ron Paul but I hate most other Republicans.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Hah! None of you came up with a single elected “libertarian Democrat” like I asked. Just some vague references to a “few guys who have a shot of wining in New Hampshire.” Great. What’s the ratio of libertarian Republicans to libertarian Democrats in the New Hampshire House? 30 to 1, maybe? And that one being Villaincourt who vacilates between all 3 Dem, Repub, and Libt.?

    Face it, the idea of a libertarian Democrat is an absolute absurdity.

    More factoids:

    Every single Libertarian Party Presidential candidate since the Party’s founding in 1972 has been a Republican, EXCEPT Harry Browne. That’s Hospers, MacBride, Clark, Bergland, Paul, Marrou, and Badnarik. Also, LP almost rans: Russell Means and Bill Hunscher. And Browne was an Independent political drop-out NOT a Democrat.

    The Founder of the Libertarian Party David Nolan was State Chairman of the Colorado Young Republicans.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    More factoids:

    Every single Libertarian ever elected to a State Legislature in the United States was a Republican.

    That’s Dick Randolph, Ken Fanning and Andre Marrou to the Alaska Legislature. Marrou even Caucused with the GOP during his two years in the Alaska House as a Libertarian 1985-87.

    That includes all 4 New Hampshire Legislators: Don Gorman & Crew.

    Only Steve Villaincourt has ever been elected as a Libertarina Democrat to a State Legislature. Funny thing is a year later he switched to the GOP.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Even More Factoids:

    Three former Libertarian Party Presidential candidates have since returned to the Republican Party:

    John Hospers, 1972 Libertarian Presidential candidate, actually endorsed George W. Bush in 2004

    Roger MacBride (now deceased), returned to the GOP in 1983, and was a super active “Connie Mack/Florida Republican” til his death in 1995.

    Ron Paul returned to the GOP in 1994. And was elected to Congress as a Republican in 1996. Paul campaigned for George W. Bush for President in 2000 even attending fundraisers for the then Texas Governor and speaking on his behalf.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Andy, you say you hate other Republicans besides Ron Paul. How do you explain the fact that Congressman Jeff Flake of Arizona has scored higher than Ron for 3 years in a row on the Liberty Index (libertarian ratings)?

    And what about ex-LP members like State Rep. Toby Nixon of Washington State, Rep. Ken Lindell of Maine, Alaska LP friend Rep. Vic Kohring and LP of Michigan friend Rep. Leon Drolet?

    Do you hate them too, only because they have an ‘R’ by their names.

    Face it RON PAUL IS NO FLUKE!!! If anything there are Republicans elected that are EVEN MORE LIBERTARIAN than Ron.

    Why is it that Libertarians like you absolutely refuse to acknowledge any other libertarian Republicans besides Ron Paul?

  • Andy

    “Andy, you say you hate other Republicans besides Ron Paul. How do you explain the fact that Congressman Jeff Flake of Arizona has scored higher than Ron for 3 years in a row on the Liberty Index (libertarian ratings)?

    And what about ex-LP members like State Rep. Toby Nixon of Washington State, Rep. Ken Lindell of Maine, Alaska LP friend Rep. Vic Kohring and LP of Michigan friend Rep. Leon Drolet?

    Do you hate them too, only because they have an ”˜R’ by their names.

    Face it RON PAUL IS NO FLUKE!!! If anything there are Republicans elected that are EVEN MORE LIBERTARIAN than Ron.

    Why is it that Libertarians like you absolutely refuse to acknowledge any other libertarian Republicans besides Ron Paul?”

    I’ve heard of Jeff Flake but I’d have do research on him myself to see how exactly he rates compared to Ron Paul.

    I voted for Tom McClintock for Govenor of California in the Davis Recall election. For those of you who don’t know, McClintock is a libertarian leaning

  • IanC

    Andy — where are these people elected to?

    Certainly if they are on Ron Paul’s level their voting records are giving the blatant lie to their rhetoric.

    Have you SEEN the voting record analysis of the current congress & senate according to the Nolan Chart? Ron Paul’s pretty god-damned lonely up in there.

  • Andy

    Republican State Senator in California.

    The reason that I voted for McClintock is because he was making a real impact in the govenor’s race while the Libertarian Party ran a guy named Ned Roscoe who got lost in obscurity. Ned Roscoe ran a chain of cigarette stores and his biggest campaign issue was Smoker’s Rights. I’m not a smoker myself and I am opposed to the anti-smoking gestapo, however, I didn’t think that this was that important of an issue to center one’s campaign around. So, after checking out McClintock’s record I decided to vote for him.

    I consider McClintock to be more of a softcore libertarian than a hardcore libertarian and I would have prefered to vote for somebody who was more hardcore. If the Libertarian Party had run a better candidate, let’s say Aaron Russo for instance, than I would have voted for him over McClintock.

    Once Republican Arnold Schwarzeneggar entered the race it was apparent that he was the favorite to win and a lot of people

  • Andy

    urged McClintock to drop out of the race but he hung in there and I’m gald that he did. McClintock ended up with 13% of the vote which was pretty good.

    Yes, there are a few Republicans that are OK, but these are exceptions rather than the rule. For the most part, the Republican Party SUCKS and their record speaks for itself. Sometimes the Republican Party increases government faster than the Democrats do, as is the case with the current Bush administration.

    If there are really so many wonderful, freedom loving Republicans out there, why is government expanding so rapidly and why aren’t they doing a better job of protecting our liberties? I’d say that it’s because a MAJORITY of them don’t really believe in liberty.

  • Andy

    “Andy ”” where are these people elected to?”

    I wasn’t the one who said that, I was quoting Eric Dondero.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Andy, thoughtful comments. And you are largely correct.

    Given you view, wouldn’t it be logical to take your thoughts to the next level.

    If indeed the Republican Party allows an occasional libertarian to win their primary and run for office under their banner, doesn’t it make sense to utilize that ballot access vehicle?

    Hey, I’m not saying you have to support the “Republican Party” per se. I just want your support for libertarians who run under the GOP banner. Folks like Don Gorman of the Libertarian Party who is running as a Republican for State House in NH this year. Folks like Sarah Palin, a friend of the Libertarian Party of Alaska who is running for Governor this year. Folks like State Rep. Leon Drolet, a close friend of the Michigan Libertarian Party who runs as a Republican. Folks like State Rep. Toby Nixon in Washington State, who is a 20 year Libertarian Party member, but who runs as a Republican for State House.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Andy, another quick point.

    You ask “why is the government expanding so rapidly,” even under Republican rule?

    Simple. The buck stops here. We libertarians are to blame. We are absolutely horrible marketers. We are not at all taken seriously in American politics. Nobody hardly ever worries about losing the libertarian vote.

    But they do worry about the Hispanic vote, the Black vote, the Senior citizens, the Teachers, et.al.

    Until we become a feared voting block to contend with, we are nothing in politics. So why should a mainstream politician respond to us?

    I’m a former Congressional staffer. You know what the ratio of people who came to our office to lobby the Congressman to cut government versus grow government was?

    Maybe 100 to 1.

    Now what would you do if you were a Congressman given those odds?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Ian,

    Jeff Flake of Arizona has scored “more libertarian” for the past 3 years than even Ron Paul on the Liberty Index.

    Ron Paul himself admits quite often that Flake is his “ideological twin.”

    But there’s also three others in Congress quite worthy of the libertarian designation: Butch Otter, just featured in the November issue of Reason Magazine, Tom Feeney of Florida, a very close friend of the Republican Liberty Caucus, and Dana Rohrabacher of California, the Founder of the Modern Libertarian movement.

    All 5 are hardcore libertarians any way you slice the pie. And as a former Congressional staffer, I’d even say Dana and Feeney, certainly Flake, are even more libertarian these days than even Ron Paul.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    For a listing of current elected Libertarian Party members and libertarian Republicans around the Nation to Federal, State and Local offices go to:

    http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Robert, am I “still defending George Bush.”

    Not really. He lost me with the Port Dubai fiasco. It was almost like a space alien took over his body for a few days. Here he was a great Warrior in the fight against Islamo-Fascism and then he turns around and wants to give control of many of our major ports to individuals who have ties to our enemies. Insane!!!

    Bush has become a politically correct liberal in the fight against Islamo-Fascism. I don’t understand for the life of me why liberals hate him so much. He’s much more of a liberal on foreign policy than a true Warrior against Islamo-Fascism.

  • http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3027&Itemid=223#penn ®notepad

    Hurray for Mr. Morrisseau! All we need is for the rest of Americans to grow a spine and stand up against these fucking communists who have hijacked our country.

    Arrest and execute the traitors!

    Burn Washington DC to the ground!

    Support mass civil disobedience against the criminal Bush regime!

    Remember 911 – we know who REALLY killed our people and we’re coming for you bastards from hell!!!

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    “Burn Washington DC to the ground!”

    Hear, hear!

  • Andy

    “Butch Otter, just featured in the November issue of Reason Magazine, Tom Feeney of Florida, a very close friend of the Republican Liberty Caucus, and Dana Rohrabacher of California, the Founder of the Modern Libertarian movement.

    All 5 are hardcore libertarians any way you slice the pie. And as a former Congressional staffer, I’d even say Dana and Feeney, certainly Flake, are even more libertarian these days than even Ron Paul.”

    I know that Butch Otter was one of the few Republicans to vote against the Patriot Act, so that’s a definite plus for him.

    When I was checking out Gun Owners Of America’s ratings for members of Congress I recall Dana Rohrabacher recieving a grade of 75 out of a possible 100. I don’t consider that to be very good. Also, doesn’t Dana Rohrabacher support the war in Iraq? I don’t consider supporting wars of aggression to be libertarian. On the plus side I will give Rohrabacher credit for supporting a medical marijauna bill.

  • Andy

    “Now what would you do if you were a Congressman given those odds?”

    I would tell any lobbyist that wanted me to vote for a bill that violates the Constitution to get the hell out of my office.

  • Andy

    “Robert, am I “still defending George Bush.”

    Not really. He lost me with the Port Dubai fiasco. It was almost like a space alien took over his body for a few days. Here he was a great Warrior in the fight against Islamo-Fascism and then he turns around and wants to give control of many of our major ports to individuals who have ties to our enemies. Insane!!!”

    A “space alien” didn’t take over George W. Bush’s body, that was just the REAL George W. Bush, a New World Order globalist traitor, just like his father and just like his grandfather. Bush IS the enemy! This illustrates how the entire “War On Terror” is nothing but a sham to scare people into accepting a domestic police state and wars of aggression abroad. Don’t Bush’s actions tell you something?!?!

    By the way, Ron Paul was one of the few people in the libertarian movement to speak out against the ports deal. I actually saw a few “libertarians” defending it as if it was free market when in

  • Andy

    reality it was an example of state sponsored corporate fascism.

  • paulie

    The factoids mentioned by Eric in posts 38-40 actually illustrate the biggest problem with the Libertarian Party. Although it appears not to be the intention of Reform Caucus leaders such as Carl Milstead, Tim West et al – who appear to be more left/centrist leaning – this long-standing Republican bias combined with LP reform threatens to create a Donderified party.

    This is why actual libertarians may wish to consider the Democratic Freedom Caucus, a new Green Party Libertarian Caucus, or perhaps taking over the leftover organization of the Natural Law Party – or expanding Utah’s Personal Choice Party – as backups.

    How do you explain the fact that Congressman Jeff Flake of Arizona has scored higher than Ron for 3 years in a row on the Liberty Index (libertarian ratings)?

    Probably a defect in the index.

  • Andy

    “- this long-standing Republican bias combined with LP reform threatens to create a Donderified party.

    This is why actual libertarians may wish to consider the Democratic Freedom Caucus, a new Green Party Libertarian Caucus”

    I agree that cozying up too close with Republicans alienates a lot of people on the left and in the center who could be potential Libertarian converts. However, it is my belief that in order to achieve long term success the Libertarian Party needs to establish itself as a brand that is not part of the “left vs. right” political system. The Libertarian Party is not about left vs. right, it’s about the state vs. you.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Paulie,

    Since you advocate libertarians considering the Democrat Party could you kindly name for us a Libertarian, current or ex-member of the Party who has been elected to public office under the Democrat banner to a state legislature or congress?

    Just one. (And no Steve Villaincourt in New Hampshire does not count.)

    Hey, come to think of it, there’s a former Libertarian Party Presidential candidate who is now a Republican Congressman. While you’re at it, could you kindly name for us a former LP Prez candidate who is now a Democrat Congressman?

  • Andy

    There is a libertarian in Florida named Frank Gonzalez who is running for Congress as a Democrat. Check out his site.

    http://www.politicalgateway.com/cand.php?id=186

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    I’m not an advocate of the Democrats as presently constituted. I left them in 1992 and would only rejoin as part of a dissident caucus. I don’t consider the present Democrats or Republicans to be libertarian. Ron Paul is, although he is wrong on immigration. I don’t consider the rest of your 30 supposedly libertarian Republicans to actually be libertarian at all.

    For that matter, I’m not so sure the Libertarian Party is fully libertarian any more. They sure seem to be running a lot of Republitarian candidates who support the war, immigration controls, and the national sales tax among other things.

    That’s why I advocate backup strategies.

    http://freedomdemocrats.org/node/812

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/red-state-fascism.html

    http://mises.org/story/2099

    http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2333

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Hey Paulie, not being a smart ass here, but did you ever stop to think that maybe you’re not a libertarian at all, but rather just a far-left liberal? Everything I see from you indicates to me that you’re a liberal along the lines of Michael Moore, Ariana Huffington, Bill Mahr, Jello Biafra, Ralph Nader, et.al.

    How does your philosophy differ from there’s?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Yes, Andy you are correct. There is one libertarian Democrat running in the entire United States. We all know about Frank Gonzales. But he won’t be elected. Not even close.

    Now compare Frank, a good man from all indications, to the 100 or so libertarian Republican candidates in the Nation.

    100 to 1. The only way you could describe Frank is as a fluke.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Paulie, you say you sort of like Ron Paul and see him as an exceptional Libertarian.

    How do you explain the fact that Congressman Jeff Flake has voted more libertarian for the past three years, even beating Ron by 8 points this year?

    Yes, Ron’s libertarian, no doubt. But Flake is hardcore!

  • Patrick Thomas

    Forget about political afillations We need change all those who say law breakers should be punished are the same ones who don’t want to punish Bush and his gang.
    He broke the law and caused needless deaths he should be punished.
    Wake up he (Bush) is a tyrant and thinks he can do as he pleases with no consequenses.
    There is not one person in prison today that has caused the death of as many people as George W. Bush has and he is a free man. There is something really wrong with that.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    hey Patrick, Saddam Hussein is still alive. In fact, he’s tan, rested and ready.

    Would you have us put him back in power?

    Have the courage of your convictions. Don’t be a woos. If you opposed the War in Iraq, than you ought to support Saddam Hussein as President of the Iraqi Republic. And you also ought to support gassing the Kurds and jailing any Iraqi anti-Saddam dissidents, and brutally torturing them.

    You can’t just whine about a problem and not offer any solution.

    You’re either anti-War in Iraq, in that case you’re defacto Pro-Saddam, Pro-Torture and Pro-Death to the Kurds, or you support Bush and the War in Iraq, in that case you support the Troops, oppose torture, want to see Saddam suffer a horrible death at the hands of the hangman, and support Independence for a Free Kurdistan!

  • Andy

    “You’re either anti-War in Iraq, in that case you’re defacto Pro-Saddam, Pro-Torture and Pro-Death to the Kurds,”

    The US government (including some members of the current regime) supported Saddam for years. Our government is currently engaging in torture and trying to justify it. Our government has killed more innocent people in Iraq than Saddam did.

    “or you support Bush and the War in Iraq, in that case you support the Troops, oppose torture, want to see Saddam suffer a horrible death at the hands of the hangman, and support Independence for a Free Kurdistan!”

    I only support the troops in the sense that I want them brought home. There are plenty of people in this country who deserve the same fate that you have in mind for Saddam. How about a FREE United States of America?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Andy, you’re woosing out. I’m sort of dissapointed. I thought you had more courage than that. I thought you’d be a man of your convictions.

    Step up to the plate. Be a man.

    You oppose the War in Iraq. Fine. Now go all the way.

    Support putting Saddam Hussein back in power as President of Iraq.

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Eric, you may be annoyingly Republican, but you’re certainly smart enough to know damn well what the fallacy is there.

    Many policy choices carry trade-offs. It’s perfectly consistent to hold that the benefit isn’t worth the cost and still recognize the benefit. VW Bugs are nice cars, but not for $1 billion each.

    Ridding Iraq of Saddam is unquestionably good in a vaccuum. It’s not unquestionably worth 3000 dead Americans, many more US casualties, thousands of Iraqi civilians dead, $200 trillion or whatever it is now, and the total chaos and terrorists’/Iranian foothold that’s ensued.

    Only foolish ideologues consider half the equation, or only encourage others to consider half the equation. But the shoe certainly fits, and you wear it well.

  • paulie

    How does your philosophy differ from there’s?

    I score 153 on this test:

    http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi

    Does that answer your question?

    to the 100 or so libertarian Republican candidates in the Nation.

    ROTFL. Pure propaganda.

    How do you explain the fact that Congressman Jeff Flake has voted more libertarian for the past three years, even beating Ron by 8 points this year?

    I would, and already have, dispute the silly index by which such ridiculous rankings are achieved.

    Would you have us put him back in power?

    It would be better than what they are doing now, although not optimal.

    If you opposed the War in Iraq, than you ought to support Saddam Hussein as President of the Iraqi Republic.

    What if I don’t care what the hell Iraqis do in their own country, as long as America stays out of it?

    You’re either anti-War in Iraq, in that case you’re defacto Pro-Saddam, Pro-Torture

    Torture in Iraq

  • paulie

    Is actually higher now than under Saddam.

  • Andy

    “Andy, you’re woosing out. I’m sort of dissapointed. I thought you had more courage than that. I thought you’d be a man of your convictions.

    Step up to the plate. Be a man.

    You oppose the War in Iraq. Fine. Now go all the way.

    Support putting Saddam Hussein back in power as President of Iraq.”

    Eric, you’re woosing out. I’m disappointed. I thought that you had courage in your convictions.

    Step up to the plate. Be a man.

    You support the war in Iraq. Fine. Now go all the way.

    Get up out of your easy chair, hop on the next flight to Bagdad, pick up a gun and go fight.

    Do you really believe in this war, or do you just prefer to send other people to do your dirty work?

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Dictionary.com

    No results found for woosing.

    At first I thought it was a typo, but since you are both using it, does this word have a definition?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Woosy = Sissy boy

    And Andy, still waiting for a response. Do you or do you not support putting Saddam Hussein back in power?

    You can’t have a middle line. If you oppose the War in Iraq, you defacto support Saddam Hussein.

  • http://c4ss.org/ paulie cannoli

    Oh, ok, you did mean wussy.

    I answered you in 71-72 and Andy added 73 to what I had to say. We’re on page 3 now, so you may want to re-post your comments in a more current thread.