Stupidities That Go On Under Communism

I don’t advocate socialized health care in any way, shape, manner or form (including those already practiced in the US, such as Medicare, Medicaid and required emergency treatment).

Nor, were I to resign myself to the forms already practiced here, would I support expanding their scope.

HOWEVER (you knew a whatever was coming), sex-change operations and such are not, strictly speaking, on the same level of “electiveness” as cosmetic surgery (“boob jobs”).

Someone who gets a breast (or penis) enlargement or reduction is normally trying to enhance qualities he or she finds important within his or her gender. Transsexuals, on the other hand, are normally people who believe their gender was erroneously assigned. They’re not trying to enhance who they are, they’re trying to BECOME who they are. Inability to do so is a source of severe anguish which deserves correction. A mild hernia might not kill you, but it makes you miserable … and fixing it isn’t “elective” as generally understood.

Stuart,

I agree that you shouldn’t have to pay for it — but I also agree that you shouldn’t have to pay for a heart transplant, or an amputation, or stitches so that a cut doesn’t heal “ugly.”

I have no problem with your objection to paying for it — I’m just saying that you’re incorrectly classifying the nature/necessity of it. As far as “nobody ever died from,” that depends on what you mean “died from.”

If you suffered pain which only opiates could relieve, and you could not get opiates, and you killed yourself because you couldn’t stand the pain any more, would it be reasonable to say that the inavailability of opiates was a factor in your death?

Some transsexuals consider the mental anguish of not being able to express their gender sufficient cause to commit suicide. It’s reasonable to say that “not getting a transsexual operation” was a factor in their deaths. That doesn’t mean you should have to pick up the check — but you could at least show some goddamn sensitivity.

Stuart,

The solution of the problem to who “considers” what to be a “basis” for anything is to not get (or at least not get any further) into the socialized health care swamp in the first place. Which is exactly what I suggested.

However, I’ll play devil’s advocate based on the current situation: Why should a transsexual have to pony up for Bob Dole’s Viagra, or for your grandma’s hemmorhoid ointment, or for that matter reconstructive surgery on a poor child’s face after a car accident which leaves her head functionally intact but looking and feeling like it took a long slide down the pavement (because it did) — and then be told that his or her complaints aren’t “considered” the “basis” for a turn at the same trough?

As soon as healthcare and politics meet,the argument becomes “WHAT is ‘the bare minimum necessary to keep people alive and healthy?” And the answer will be a matter of POLITICS. Don’t know about you, but I’d rather keep politics away from my kidneys, etc. entirely.

Actually we as libertarians need to be figuring out ways to kick them in the nuts and get them to knock it off. We don’t drag our heels until we’ve been knocked down and are being carried away.

Either way, I don’t see making fun of — or at least posting uninformed blather about — transsexuals as a very good approach. But maybe that’s just me. Yes, I’m guilty of saying things that might not have non-libertarians swimming toward our ship, too, but I’m just saying, you know?

This proposal is clearly discriminatory. I see no offer of free transpecies operations. What the hell is a cat trapped in a human body supposed to do?

I have what I believe is a solution to the healthcare problem in America. Rather than socialize medicine, perhaps a program could be started that would provide medical schools to every state university, as well as reducing teh licencing requirements to be a medical professional of varying degrees, and also limiting malpractice lawsuit damages.

I have to be honest, I am not particularly familiar with the national party’s stance on healthcare, but I have always thought this would make a good addendum, at least.

The premis of the article is assinine. Oppose socialist healthcare for any one of numerous good reasons. But to suggest that your “taxes would go up” because of transexual gender re-assignments is idiotic. How many such surgeries would be performed, even if they were “free,” each year? Whatever the number, there’s no way it would even approach $1 in annual taxes to even the most affluent taxpayer in the “progressive” system.

The worst thing wrong with medicine is that every part of the system is fighting against every other part of the system that it must work with to remain in business. We have created a total adversarial system, that in reality costs more to operate than a government run system would. A simple examination of the relevent data from several sources nd adjusting for currency exchange and population pretty much tells the story.

Government is the source of this problem. But there are some things that simply should not be, regardless of LP beliefs. Human life will always > money, at least to any standard of moral humanity I know. But I cant tell you how many “libertarians” I’ve heard making comments like “if people get sick it’s their own fucking fault. Let them pay for it.”

There’s a middle ground that must be found between todays bloated semi-private system and “let them pay for it” for the LP to champion.

Tim,

Let’s start with something we can probably agree on: The “healthcare problem” is complex.

Let’s move to something else we can probably agree on: Government involvement in healthcare, as in everything else, manifests itself more on the “problem” end than on the “solution” end.

Finally, let’s move to something I hope we can agree on: Libertarians want freedom and we want affordable, quality healthcare for all and especially lifesaving care for victims of emergency, whether that emergency takes the form of traumatic injury or of catastrophic illness.

If we agree on those things, then there’s a final bridge to get across: We need to realize that libertarians are not the only political group, and that we don’t have to shoulder the burdens of the other, competing groups. One of our objectives is reasonably affordable, &c. health care. As libertarians, our means for achieving that goal is (continued)

(continued from comment 23) We don’t have to look for the “middle ground” you allude to. Believe you me, we’ll find that middle ground without looking for it, if we are effective in pulling toward — incrementally, yes, and without hopping up and down on one foot and screaming that we must get there NOW or not at all, but toward the far side of that middle ground, where our ideal lies. Because while we are pulling toward our goals, the other groups are pulling toward theirs, creating tension and counterforce.

If you’ve ever played tug of war, you know that while a slow, plodding pull in your direction may be … well, slow and plodding … it gets you there — but that moving toward the middle means you get pulled into the puddle and out the other side of it, and covered with mud to boot. The other groups aren’t going to seek the “middle ground” (every attempt to form a “centrist” party or movement has failed more spectacularly than the LP has). They’re (cont’d)

While I’m waxing incredibly verbose, I do want to take a moment to thank Stuart for his always interesting blogging. Sorry to take the piss out of you on this particular post — but you know me. When I have an opinion, no one is safe.

Tom,

you cant apply market solutions where the levers of market solutions have no way to apply themselves. Please note that I said EMERGENCY MEDICINE – there’s a lot that can be done on other parts of the system, but I dont see where a market system can be introduced into a situation where the market driven levvers of control DONT WORK becuase the market relationship between supply and demand does not exist in that instance and cannot be made to exist without making the LP look like a bunch of heartless scumbags.

You know by now that I dont give a shit about how I am SUPPOSED to think. I think what I think based on observation, research, and personal experience, and I choose my political party based on the best fit, and that fit is still the LP for now, depending on the news from Portland.

I think for myself. If I think that libertarian beliefs dont apply in a certain instance, I’ll question those beliefs. No philosophy controls me or my direction. I believe what I think is right.

normally, there is presumption that by seeking medical care in the first place, you are seeking treatment for same. If you think that grandma has lived a full life, simply dont take her anywhere. Let her rot in her bed and die and be happy, knowing that you did the right thing in the name of liberty.

When I was in critical condition and my outcome not assured earlier this year, I have to think I’m really glad I wasnt married to you. I’d be deathly scared you would give up on me for the sake of a libertarian ‘principle’.

Tim,

I wouldn’t dream of asking you to believe anything except that which you think is right, but what you think is right may or may not be right. Same goes for me. Debate is about convincing the other guy to agree with you on what’s right.

So, I’m going to take another shot at this, since that you blew right past my key point and went off looking for something to bitch about rather than for a way to succeed.

You say “you cant apply market solutions where the levers of market solutions have no way to apply themselves.” I’m not going to argue about whether or not market solutions are well-suited to emergency medicine. I’m going to stipulate — for the sake of argument — that they aren’t.

When looking at complex problems, we should take the tools we have (“market solutions”) and apply them to the parts of the problems that they ARE well-suited to, instead of throwing down our tools, pouting, and whining that we should pick out new tools and different problems.

Michelle,

I apologize. I read back the post and I was too harsh on you. But there’s has got to be a middle ground NOT IN THE END but in the BEGINNING where we can address this problem as a party. It’s not calling for 98 year old mothers to be put to death in the name of lowering government costs.

Simply calling for people to pay for their own health care is a loser. In light of your example earlier, I should say that I always though Jack Kevorkian was a hero, and today he sits dying in a jail cell and almost no one remembers him. People Should have the right to end their own life at the time of their choosing. But allowing others to choose that for them is a slippy slope.

Tom, I dont know what to tell ya. your 4th paragraph is pretty much what I said to start with. But where market forces do not apply, we cant continue to insist that they can becuase our platform says we have to. That not dealing with reality.

We have to start with reality, TODAY.

Natalie,

I’ll take a shot at convincing you to reconsider.

You should vote Libertarian for two reasons:

1) Libertarians are on your side.

2) The candidates of the other parties are not.

I don’t know if you’ve ever been involved in a team competitive activity — sport or whatever — before, but if you have, you’ve probably found people on your team whom you maybe didn’t like or who offended you.

But, they were on your side. They were trying to help you achieve your goals. So you put up with them, even if the people on the other team, who were trying to make you lose, were nicer or more polite.

I didn’t like this post, primarily because of the way it approached the issue of transsexuality. I bet that Bill Frist and Ted Kennedy wouldn’t publicly make fun of transsexuals. But if Frist, Kennedy and Stuart were on the ballot for election to public office, I’d vote for Stuart, because he is seeking the same goals as I am.

Regards,
Tom Knapp

Stuart,

Let’s start with the dishonesty aspect.

“.. to cut off your dick for you”

For male to female patients, not really what happens in typical inversion or flap techniques, nor in resection: vagina, clitoris, labia and cervix are manufactured from the material. I note you didn’t mention anything at all about female to male patients.

Your “opinion” is not the matter of factual reality.

And I am not “pissed” at you. I just think you are incredibly ignorant on the subject, and attempting to use it for political gain – just like the Republican party uses gay and lesbian issues for political gain.

“…sure as hell don’t want my taxes to go up because of elective surgeries.”

Neither do transsexuals – including for surgery. Your post implies otherwise. BTW, general rule of thumb is 50% of transsexuals commit suicide before the age of 30 years. Elective? I’ll say for some, maybe all, maybe not all – but I won’t say for certain that it is always elective.

Abuse.

Honesty is not abusive, Stuart.

Dishonesty is abusive.

Please learn about things you don’t know diddly squat about before you write about them. Thank you in advance.

My my, Stuart. Aren’t you in a tizzy? Please don’t let me interrupt your rantings. Was just looking for someone honest in politics. Didn’t find it here. Oh well.

And no, my “widdle feewings” aren’t hurt in the slightest, thank you so much for asking. I am far stronger than you will ever be. However, by the way you write, I can tell yours are – you do seem a tad upset, hmmm? Amazing the way perceptions come across the internet, isn’t it?

Now what is this hysterical nonsense: Cost is not relevant to socialized healthcare? Excuse me, didn’t realize you were not only ignorant but insane. Have you considered seeing a doctor about that problem?

Have a good evening, Stuart. Try to relax. You are obviously far too upset over a little discussion in which you have little knowledge and even less sanity.

Ta!

Thank you, Michelle, for trying to help Stuart mature a bit.

Holy moly, Stuart. A friend of mine, who convinced me that I’m not a Republican after all, turned me on to your blog… which has me laughing. After reading all of the comments, it appears you have some Libertarian readers who were, at one time, convinced that they aren’t bleeding-heart liberals.

At the root of a healthy political discussion is the suspended dis-belief that your adversary in debate is not out to kill you. The emotional replies to your post are cracking me up. These whiners are probably loosing sleep at night because they’ve left their own destiny in someone else’s hands. Calm down, everyone. Don’t head for Switzerland just yet.

Smaller government and the preservation of personal liberties requires that only your own hands are in your own pockets. Your post goes a long way to invite others into your way of thinking. The offendees ought not go into a battle of wits with half of their brains tied behind their respective backs.

Blog on, my friend. I’m reading.