Submarine Vet Trying to “Swift Boat” Kinky

Kinky Friedman has a posse Last month, the story was that he was racist. Then his Democratic opponent asked him to drop out of the race (Friedman’s reply: “We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”). Now the personal attacks on Kinky Friedman are about what the lapel pins he wears. KXAN reports:

“It took me almost nine months to earn the right to wear these dolphins,” Texas Commander for U.S. Submarine Veterans Ray Wilgeroth said.

Wilgeroth says he’s gotten calls from all over the state asking him why Kinky is wearing their medal while he campaigns.

“We do not feel it’s appropriate for him to wear it and imply that the submarine veterans are supporting him for governor because we’re not. We don’t support anyone,” Wilgeroth said.

Thankfully, KXAN reporter Jenny Hoff is a lot more responsible than certain national news organizations and got answers from Kinky about why he’s wearing the medals. His replies show why this attack, like the others, is going to backfire.

“The airborne was given to me by a man in Fort Worth before the primaries who told me I would have to work through my A hole to get on the ballot,” Friedman said.

He says the dolphins were given to him by a submarine widow.

Hoff asks: “And, she wanted you to wear it?”
Friedman says: “Absolutely, she’s been working very hard for our campaign in East Texas.”

Like I said about the “racist” attacks, this is what desperation looks like. People don’t spend the time on personal attacks or appeals to leave the race if your candidacy is a “joke.” Despite his unpolished debate performance, Kinky still has momentum and I still predict that he will be the next Governor of the Lone Star State.

posted by nsarwark
  • http://www.originaldrugmanualforkids.com JT Barrie

    I’m a good friend of a diehard Democratic activist. He supported someone else in the primary and he’s not voting for Bell. He likes Kinky Friedmann a bunch – reminds him a little of myself, except with the bad habits that I don’t have. I doubt that many people in the GOP are enamored with Perry. My friend told me that he isn’t a whole lot different from moderate Democrats except for the tax shell game [the "make someone else pay for it" crowd]. I didn’t know the race was that close.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Nicholas, would you like to make an offline wager? I think that Perry is going to sew this up. I think Bell is the only one sweating.

    I am not happy about my prediction, but I will be happy to take your cash. ;o)

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    I am not happy about my prediction, but I will be happy to take your cash. ;o)

    What odds?

    I still owe a guy in MD $100 from my failed bet that Badnarik would come in third in 2004, but I’m game.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    I still owe a guy in MD $100 from my failed bet that Badnarik would come in third in 2004, but I’m game.

    Dude, I am a gambling woman, but I only want to gamble on the race, not on whether I’ll be paid. Besides, are we allowed to talk about this on the Internet anymore? Perhaps we should make the bet in code.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Hows about a buck fifty?

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    Dude, I am a gambling woman, but I only want to gamble on the race, not on whether I’ll be paid. Besides, are we allowed to talk about this on the Internet anymore? Perhaps we should make the bet in code.

    It’s more a case that I haven’t seen the guy (he was visiting from California at the time) since, but ran into him at a wedding this last weekend and he reminded me of it.

    We gamblers pay our bets.

    Hows about a buck fifty?

    Maybe something slightly lower? I’m off to Thailand next week and might be a little short on disposable cash in early November.

    Additionally, Tradesports has the odds at 8:1 right now. What odds are you offering?

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Horses and football have always let me down so I never really got odds. I am a blackjack player and only know those odds. Please explain to this blackjack player what 8:1 means in this particular situation.

  • http://wesbenedictforlnc.blogspot.com/ Wes Benedict

    Nicholas,

    Although I disagree with lots of Kinky Friedman’s positions, overall I like the guy. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t remotely consider voting for him with a Libertarian in the race. Kinky is far from Libertarian.

    I appreciate you and Michelle having the guts to put in writing who you think will win. That information can be used in the future to judge whose opinions and ideas should be respected in the future.

    If Perry wins with 40% and Kinky gets 20%, do you think your support for Kinky will have helped the Libertarian Party or hurt it?

    I understand many on this blog aren’t primarily interested in building the Libertarian Party and think jumping ship to whomever is a better strategy.

    While I expect the Libertarian candidate, James Werner, to get less than is typical due to two strong independents in this race, he has done more than any other candidate in recent history to promote the LP in Texas because he is on the radio, in print and TV so much.

    –Wes Benedict

  • Devious David

    Bravo, Wes! Well said. Just don’t try and get Dondero to understand it.

    Kinky does seem like a pretty likeable guy and worthy individual. But he’s no libertarian.

    Being that my own opinions are the most valuable opinions here anyway and unconditionally, I think Perry will win. It would take a massive activation on non-voters to push Kinky over the top, especially with the vote fraud capability of as much as 17% in Perry’s favor.

  • http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/ Bubblehead

    Sorry, but questioning why someone who didn’t earn a military qualification pin they clearly didn’t earn isn’t trying to “Swift Boat” them; it’s an attempt to protect a sacred heritage. I would have figured a Texan could appreciate that, but I guess I was wrong.
    Any idea why the E-mail Kinky’s people sent out with an explanation of why he’s wearing the dolphins is different from the explanation Kinky gave to KXAN?

  • http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/ Bubblehead

    Quick correction now that I’m calmed down a little; in the first sentence above, it should read: “..why someone was wearing a military qualification pin”.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Wes said:

    I understand many on this blog aren’t primarily interested in building the Libertarian Party and think jumping ship to whomever is a better strategy.

    Eric here:

    Precisely Wes. The Libertarian Party represents only a small portion of the Libertarian Quadrant and the overall libertarian movement. You can’t expect all libertarians to support the LP candidate. Especially when the vast majority of the libertarian movement is far more mainstream and moderate than the hardcore Libertarian Party.

    Kinky represents that sensible libertarian middle ground. I’d say he’s an 80/80 sort of guy. Right smack dab in the middle of the libertarian spectrum.

    Werner is probably a 95/95 to 100/100 guy. His voter appeal, even to libertarians, is quite limited.

    Pew Research says that fully 9% of the American electorate is essentially “libertarian” (fiscal conservative yet socially tolerant).

    Out of that 9% probably only 1% at most lean LP. 8% left over for Kinky.

  • http://www.myspace.com/undercover_anarchist undercover_anarchist

    Whatever, Dondy. Despite his support for the FraudTax, Mr. Werner is amomng the best Libertarians running. Real Libertarians do not support the racist socialist Kinky Slaveman.

  • http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/ Vigilis

    Imitation is surely “the sincerist form of flattery.” Last time I checked, unlike the Congressional Medal of Honor, no one is authorized to wear military insignia in civilian clothes.

    That said, there are too many pretenders in our society claiming undeserved acomplishments. Kinky’s explanations prove he is no claimant at all. The problem is, active duty personnel try to wear undeserved submarine dolphins. The system that catches them works fairly well. Should culprits be able to point to civilian misuse for their misguided inspiration, however? Absolutely not.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Who said somethign about Dondero masturbating dolphins? That’s going too far. I demand you substantiate your claims!

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    Eric, as I’ve said before, Kinky may not be a leftist, rightist, or socialist, but he’s also not a Libertarian. He’s got pretty extreme views in every quandrant, which places him getting drawn and quartered right around 50/60.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Nigel, take a stab at at. Knowing Kinky’s views, where would he score on the WSPQ. I’ve taken the test for Kinky, guessing on a few, and making educated choices on others. He comes out about 75/75.

    Last time I checked that’s LIBERTARIAN QUADRANT!!!

  • Michelle Shinghal

    I’ve taken the test for Kinky, guessing on a few, and making educated choices on others. He comes out about 75/75.

    I just love when people pretend they can read minds and hearts.

  • Derrick

    Dondero is right in post #12. The LP is not even mainstream in the libertarian movement. It is dominated by people who are 100/100 on the Nolan chart (myself included.)

    Many of our candidates are intellectually-inbred extremists. They scare people by speaking passionately about how they’d completely gut the government, eliminate taxes, and return to the gold standard. But, they exhibit no in-depth knowledge or nuance on issues that actually matter to their constituency.

    Y’all keep posting here wondering why LP candidates aren’t taken seriously. It’s because the old-school extremists scare everyone away, and have no engagement at all with political reality.

    The new school of LP candidates (ex: Peirce, Guthrie) has it right. Know the issues, offer solutions the public can swallow, campaign hard.

    Final point: We can grow the LP *10 times* just by bringing in people who are already small-L libertarians. There are at *least* ten of them out there for every one LPer.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Derrick makes good posts. Kudos.

  • Pingback: Get Kinky » Blog Archive » Chuck Norris, Maverick, and Nemo Separately Endorse Friedman Candidacy

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    Michelle,
    According to tradesports, people seem to think it’s 8 times more likely that Perry wins than that Kinky, Strayhorn, or Werner do. What do you think the chances of Kinky winning in November are? Let me know, we can bet.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    Bubblehead,
    I said it on your blog, but I’ll repeat my comment here:

    “I understand the jealousy with which members of elite services guard their honors, and I fully support the right of those members to call out people who are representing themselves as having earned those honors.

    That said, Kinky isn’t and wasn’t holding himself out as a submariner and attacking him for wearing the pin was and is uncalled for.

    Perhaps there is something more worth your time than pestering Jewish cowboys and calling people names. Or is that what the silent service is all about?”

    Good day, sir.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    Wes,
    Thanks for your comments. Please note that I have never suggested that Libertarians should vote for Kinky. That mantle has been taken up by others, but I think it’s a matter for each Texas voter to decide, whether they’re Libertarian or not.

    I’m also not claiming that he’s a libertarian. I happen to be a fan from way back (I sang “Ol’ Ben Lucas” when I was a little kid) and I think he’s a cool guy. I disagree with a number of his positions, but sometimes politics is more about the character of a person than it is about party labels or litmus tests.

    If Perry wins with 40% and Kinky gets 20%, do you think your support for Kinky will have helped the Libertarian Party or hurt it?

    I understand many on this blog aren’t primarily interested in building the Libertarian Party and think jumping ship to whomever is a better strategy.

    If Kinky does well, the LP will benefit. I’m mainly interested in building the LP, but not to the exclusion of all else.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    Eric,
    I honestly don’t understand your constant efforts to put Kinky in a libertarian box. His main strength as a candidate is his iconoclastic unwillingness to be put into a box. That’s why people like him, not because of where he scores on the Nolan Chart.

    You like to talk about how small a part of the movement the 100/100 purists are, but I would argue that those who vote solely based on Nolan Chart scores are an even smaller group.

    Basic political math: You don’t win by appealling to a group of people who cannot form a majority (or plurality in a multi-way race).

    With apologies to Lincoln, don’t try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

  • BobKid

    Mr. Sarwark,

    I worked as hard for my dolphins as anything I’ve ever done in my life, and as such they represent a deep meaning to me and to others who’ve earned the right to wear them.

    To belittle anyone who points out that Kinky needs to consider just what wearing a set of dolphins (or the jump wings) means to those of us who sacrificed to earn that right is pretty shortsighted. If he had a good explanantion, like he does for the jump wings, then let him answer the question and move on. It’s only by attacking those who raise those questions that you perpetuate the feeling that he’s trying to hide something.

    and fwiw – I am a Kinky supporter, but if that means being associated with other supporters who don’t understand the military and what we’ve endured to earn certain distinctions, then maybe I need to rethink my vote after all.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Dolphins? Oh, like boy scout patches for big boys who never fully grew up and like to play GI Joe? Can I be Snake Eyes? What do you want to bet that Dondero was a Wee-Blow?? Then again, he may have joined the girl scouts because he liked their brownshirt uniforms better.

  • Timothy West

    Derrick has it nailed.

  • unkawill

    “With apologies to Lincoln, don’t try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig”

    I belive that quote should be attributed to Heinlein.

  • STS2(SS)

    undercover_anarchist,
    I could start by badmouthing your mom and dad about not bringing you up with any sense at all, but i won’t. What I will do is point out to you that there is not playing when it comes to being in the military in any service, and the patches and pins that you belittle come with a price that by your very screen name you have no clue about. The very words you have the right to write on this blog and others have come with a price paid in blood, sweat and tears of the very men and women that you say are playing GI Joe. That said, do I think that this rant of mine will change someone as shallow as you. I am if nothing else a realist and no I know it won’t change your opinon but like you I have the right to put my words on this blog.

  • undercover_anarchist

    I’m sorry, Storm Shadow. I thought I was born with the right to free speech. I didn’t realize that the benevolent government and its thugs were so nice as to give me that right. And yeah, militarism isn’t play. What kind of badge do you get for slaughtering innocent women and children? How about raping and torturing? I never asked anyone to spill blood for me, and whatever attrocities you undertake are not in my name.

  • STS2(SS)

    undercover_anarchist,
    you my friend where born in the United States thats what gave you the right to free speech. The government of the the United States did give you that right in a piece of paper called the Constitution. It is in the 1st Amendment. Its the so called Benevolent Government that gave you the right, and its the very men and women that where it its military that fight and die so you can badmouth your own country. I would love to know why you stay in a place that you don’t like. I can however guess, its because it is the very country that you hate that you have the most freedom to hate and to call others rapist and murders.

    we sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” George Orwell

  • Dice

    Here is the problem. Kinky is wearing a device that is earned by hard work, sweat, and sacrifice. He didn’t earn them. No matter who gave them to him, He’s no better than a used car salesman who flies a big american flag. It is only there to attract attention to himself, and bring in business. It’s disrespectful to those who have earned them, no different that those that wear the medal of honor illegally. It’s just plain wrong.

    It matters to those of use who served.

  • ZanderC

    The Bill of Rights is not a “granting” of rights to the people by the government. It is an enumeration of rights we, the people, already hold. Thank you.

  • STS2(SS)

    ZanderC,

    You are correct. It is however the United States government that protrects those rights.

  • STS2(SS)

    that is protects

  • undercover_anarchist

    No, you statist thug. I was born with all the rights I possess. Governments do not confer rights on to people. Governments can only deny rights to people.

    Who says I don’t love America? I do love it. I love Western values. Free inquiry. Reason. Markets. Democracy. Liberty. These are things that are foreign to militarists like yourself.

    The Constitution and Bill of Rights are LIMITS on government. Limits that are routinely ignored, but limits nonetheless. They do not grant rights.

    You have a very poor understanding of freedom. You think that a cabal of slave rapists who met behind closed doors 200+ years ago gave us freedom. Were they gods?

    Look at this invasion of Boy Scout fascists. Now Dice wants the state to have its own shock troop fashion police. I can wear any queer little ornament I damn well please. That’s what we call freedom. Your mommy dressed you until you went off to military camp, and now you want the paternalistic state to enforce fashion choices for all. Lovely.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    I worked as hard for my dolphins as anything I’ve ever done in my life, and as such they represent a deep meaning to me and to others who’ve earned the right to wear them.

    Thank you for your service.

    To belittle anyone who points out that Kinky needs to consider just what wearing a set of dolphins (or the jump wings) means to those of us who sacrificed to earn that right is pretty shortsighted. If he had a good explanantion, like he does for the jump wings, then let him answer the question and move on. It’s only by attacking those who raise those questions that you perpetuate the feeling that he’s trying to hide something.

    What the dolphins mean to you (badge of honor earned through sweat, blood and tears) and what they mean to Kinky (wearing them to honor a departed submariner and his service) are different. I’m belittling those who feel they are diminished by Kinky’s display and are willing to make petty attacks on a good man.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    and fwiw – I am a Kinky supporter, but if that means being associated with other supporters who don’t understand the military and what we’ve endured to earn certain distinctions, then maybe I need to rethink my vote after all.

    I hope you don’t, because this is what the core of libertarianism is all about. It’s accepting that others are different and that we don’t all have to agree or even like each other to work together, as long as we respect each other’s rights. It’s what Kinky, with all his contradictory positions, is all about.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    undercover_anarchist, is there really a need to make this personal? That’s the problem with the initial attacks on Kinky, let’s not compound the problem by turning this into a shit-flinging contest.

  • STS2(SS)

    undercover_anarchist,

    where do you come off calling me a fascist, I feel that my service to our country was honarable you call me a fascist.
    The men that wrote the Consitition where living under the thumb of England and knew what oppression was(there was no free speech)(English troops lived in peoples homes) and they put on that piece of paper what they wanted this country to be and to be like. It is those brave men that put a start to this great country.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Quite to the contrary, freedom of speech theoretically existed in Colonial America, and it certainly existed to a greater extent than under the repressive Washington and Adams regimes. Adams in particular was a tyrant, and his Federalist Party tried to jail all political opponents, similar to the tactics of Saddam Hussein or Stalin. Did you know that courts ruled against the liberal interpretations of the Bill of Rights by Madison and Jefferson? THEY WROTE the Constitution but the Federalists and their cronies on the bench thought they knew it better than they did.

    And while the Founders certainly were brave, did they really know what real oppression was? No. I think the black women whom they raped on a frequent basis had a better idea. I think the Natives that the slaughtered without mercy had a pretty good idea too. I think the Mexicans, from whom we stole nearly half of our land, have a better idea than those aristocrats we call the Founders.

  • undercover_anarchist

    I don’t belive I called you a fascist, but if the combat boot fits… Do you believe there should be laws governing the dress of citizens? If so, then put on the boot.

    And to Mr. Sarwark… I don’t consider this to be “personal.” I am undercover_anarchist and they are just screen names to me. I bear these men no malice. But perhaps the bluntness of my words can better illustrate the passion with which I disagree with them.

  • STS2(SS)

    I think that is the real problem with all government is its interpration(spelling) of the laws and the rights that all men have, but i have to say that i would rather be in the United States then in any other country in this world. I have had the opertunity to visit many other places in the world and i have seen slums and people that had no hope. i have also in my service to this country helped people that need help.(I helped to rebuild a school in Thailand that had been felled by a typhoon)

    What the Founders did had very real reprocutions over 200 years down the road. Our country is the greatest in the world and i have to admit can do better in alot of areas.

    when i joined the Navy i swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and it gets me alittle angry (ok alot angry) when people put that service down and calls me a fascist for doing what i think my duty was. I respect your opinon and hope you have alittle bit of an idea about mine.

  • STS2(SS)

    sorry a statist thug is what you called me.

  • STS2(SS)

    sorry you called me a statist thug

  • Ed Weirdness

    I certainly didn’t win any of the medals, pins, accolades, etc.. that my Father, and my Uncles earned. I thought highly of these men (Uncle Walt shot up bad at Anzio, Uncle Otis lost the fingers of his right hand, and a large portion of his spine and hip at Pearl Harbor) and was deeply touched, and honored when they gave me these medals and pins. I once sat in the laps of these great men, and as a child played with the medals they earned. Now years after their deaths, I find that some “military” personnel think I have no right to have these precious gifts? I’ll throw these artifacts away just as soon as you can assure me that you have no intention of passing you’re artifacts on to you’re family members or close friends.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Who said somethign about Dondero masturbating dolphins? That’s going too far. I demand you substantiate your claims!

    I met with Mohammed Atta in Iraq and he showed me classified information that Dondero is known in the Underground Swingingers community as Dragon-wolfe Dolphinn.

    Warning: this article is most definitely not work-safe, or dolphin-safe.

    http://www.sexwork.com/family/dolphins1.html

    http://www.sexwork.com/family/dolphinrape.html

  • Derrick

    No photos?

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Horses and football have always let me down so I never really got odds. I am a blackjack player and only know those odds. Please explain to this blackjack player what 8:1 means in this particular situation.

    Since Perry is 8 times more likely to win than Friedman, Nick would get 8 times as much if Friedman wins than you would get if Perry wins.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-odds_gambling

  • Winston O’Boogie

    Re: post #14 and “no one is authorized to wear military insignia in civilian clothes.”

    Actually, AR670-1 does allow it in some circumstances. Also, you may want to talk to some Senators, Congresscritters, etc., about wearing mini insignia and enameled award on their lapels. If it’s illegal, then it should be fixed.

    Not that I think Kinky should be wearing the jump wings or the mullets. Just pointing out that an Army Reg allows it; I imagine a Navy Uniform Reg covers the same issue.

    Winston
    EMC/CWO (SWO) USN
    CW4, USAR

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    No, the Constitution did not give us our rights.

    And hell no, the military is not what “keeps us free”.

    It’s far more likely that the military will be used to enslave us.

  • http://wesbenedictforlnc.blogspot.com/ Wes Benedict

    Regardless of whether they are purists, anarchists, extremist reformers, or realists, for Libertarian Party candidates to win, they need more people to vote for them. When Libertarian Party members and other libertarians vote for non Libertarian Party candidates over Libertarian Party candidates (regardless of ideologies), that damages the Libertarian Party (which I understand many of you favor).

    In a war, would you expect an American soldier to shoot another American soldier instead of an Iraqi because he thought the Iraqi seemed like a nice guy?

    Would you expect a Texas Aggie to tackle his own quarterback because he thought the Longhorn quarterback was a nice guy? (maybe that’s a bad example)

    I remember a bunch of California Libertarians endorsed McLintock for Governor (who lost big). I’m sure that pissed off some Libertarians. Do you think that move helped to grow the LP?

    I support growing the LP. That requires supporting the LP team, not betraying its candidates.

  • http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/ Bubblehead

    I notice in the news that Mr. Friedman is campaigning with Governor Ventura. Maybe if Kinky were to ask Jesse if Jesse would mind if Kinky started wearing a SEAL pin, Mr. Friedman would understand why some people don’t necessarily like people who didn’t earn them wearing a warfare qualification pin. If Mr. Friedman wants to honor his friend who did earn the dolphins, maybe he could wear a boat patch or some such thing.

    And Nicholas, the reason I called you a name was that in attacking Mr. Wilgeroth, who was clearly trying to protect our heritage (rather than attacking Kinky politically), you were acting as if you were wearing your posterior as a hat.

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    Kinky clearly meant no offense in his wearing of the pin.

    UA, do you ever read what you write and think “Who is this asshole?”

  • http://www.myspace.com/undercover_anarchist undercover_anarchist

    Nope.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Umm, Wes. Perhaps you’ve forgotten, but McClintock has worked with the LP through Aaron Starr on numerous pieces of legislation over the years favorable to Libertarians.

    I guess you didn’t notice Arnold’s recent veto of two bills that would have seriously damaged petitioner’s rights in California. It would have dissallowed paid petitioners essentially. His veto was highly praised by Richard Winger of Ballot Access News.

    Don’t know for sure, but I can’t help but thinking maybe Arnold’s buddy McClintock (through McClintock’s buddy LPer Aaron Starr) had a little to do with that behind the scenes?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Wes, you neglected to mention that McClintock tried to join the LP at one point a few years ago, and actually introduced legislation legalizing fusion tickets in California, so that he could run on both the LP and GOP tickets.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    For those who say Kinky is no libertarian, let’s remember, by his own admission he has said recently that he is in agreement with Jesse Ventura on 95% of the issues.

    So, if you say Kinky is no libertarian, you are essentially saying Ventura is no libertarian, as well.

    How exclusionary is that? Take the WSPQ for Jesse, and he comes out maybe 90/90, some would say maybe even 100/90.

    Take the WSPQ for Kinky and he’s virtually the same, maybe 80/80, 70/70 at worst.

    So, you’re essentially taking the whole Libertarian Quadrant and eliminating everyone under 80/80 from the libertarian movement when you say Kinky is no libertarian.

    Do we really want to be that exclusionist?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Wes, you say Kinky is “far from Libertarian.” You should have said, “Kinky is far from being a 100/100 Libertarian.”

    Go ahead Wes, take the Advocates WSPQ test for Kinky. I’ve done it many times. I keep coming up with 80/80, 70/70 at worst. That’s comfortably within the Libertarian Quadrant.

    Derrick is right. The LP plays the exclusionist game. Hell, the LP is even marginalized within the libertarian movement itself.

    Cato just released a huge report “The Libertarian Vote” yesterday. It’s garnerning national attention. The LP is mentioned ONE TIME in the 20 page report.

    When’s the last time you saw an article on the LP in REASON Magazine?

    Only the Republican Liberty Caucus chummies up to the LP from time to time, like at the recent RLC National Convention in Orlando. Chuck Moulton, LP Vice-Chair was an honored guest speaker.

    If Kinky is viewed as “not libertarian” enough, how does the LP ever hope to mainstream itself?

  • http://c4ss.org/ paulie cannoli

    Take the WSPQ for Jesse, and he comes out maybe 90/90, some would say maybe even 100/90.

    In his rhetoric. Not in his record as Mayor and Governor.

    Here’s a little something about Eric’s allegedly “libertarian” Gubernator.

    http://www.arnoldexposed.com/arnold.htm#nazi

  • http://submandave.blogspot.com submandave

    I can understand your position that Kinky may have meant nothing but respect by wearing the military pins, but how is that supposed to be obvious by a simple photo? OK, maybe he has explained his feelings to me, but what about the next guy and the next … This is very different than the ridiculous parade of ribbons (pink, blue, black, rainbow, whatever) that became all the rage in the ’90s, where what you decided to pick and wear was a matter of individual choice. An extreme example, but suppose a candidate took to wearing a swastika, not out of any Nazi sentiment but as a symbol of respect for a Buddhist friend. The sentiment is not evident by the action, an action that would be offensive to many.

    In most contexts the wearing of any military decoration means “I have earned this.” Saying it doesn’t will not change this general perception.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Hey Paulie, notice you didn’t say anything about Arnold just vetoing those two bills that would have stopped petitioner’s rights in California? One of them would have kept petitioners from being paid to gather signatures.

    For this act, and this act alone, Arnold deserves our eternal gratitude! If those bills had passed libertarian petitioners would no longer be able to work in California. Oregon would have followed California’s lead, and the leftwing groups nationwide like BAMN and ACORN would have worked to get similar laws passed in all other petitioning states.

    And you want to align us libertarians with these liberal slime? They are THE ENEMY OF LIBERTARIANS!!!

  • undercover_anarchist

    I just sent $25 to ACORN in honor of you, Dondy.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    So, you’re on record against the rights of petitioners and initiatives, huh? And you’re endorsing dead people voting. (News from a couple days ago where ACORN petitioners were registering dead people for the Democrats in St. Louis.)

  • http://www.gmapalumni.org/chapomatic Chap

    I don’t know boo about whatever election y’all are having there, and I like Friedman. I also know what dolphins are. It’s a pretty legitimate line of inquiry for someone who has a culture defined in terms of such symbols (dolphins) to object to someone wearing them out and about.

    It’s a free country. Actions have consequences. Liberty; responsibility. You put on a little piece of military uniform that’s hard to earn to wear (and means something) for some people, you send a message.

    Kinky’s staffers had a lot more thinking and class, in dealing with the issue, than you did on this. If you hadn’t insulted people they might well have done just fine with the explanation Kinky’s guys sent out. (That’s my read on the community’s reaction, anyway: the important thing was to establish what the reasoning was and why to ensure this wasn’t pure insult.)

    But, hey, if your role in life is to be Right and Ignored, then go on with your bad self losing new friends.

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  • http://grayraven.com/JimNtexas Jim Howard

    Friedman has no business wearing military badges on his vest. He clearly is hoping people will think that he earned them. What he is doing is highly offensive to many vets.

    Friedman was in the Peace Corps, not the military. If he wants flair on his vest, he should wear a peace symbol.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    How many Military guys are here on this Forum? How many of you all are Veterans?

    I am:

    US Navy, 1981-85 (honorably discharge)

    USS Kittyhawk, CV-63 Aircraft Carrier – San Diego
    USS Luce, DDG-38 Guided Missile Destroyer – Jacksonville, FL

    I have three medals: Expeditionary for service in a War Zone (Persian Gulf, Iran vs. Iraq), Volunteerism (for picking up Vietnamese boat people in the South China Sea), and Sea Service for 4 years of straight sea duty.

    These people asked Kinky to wear the medal. They were honored for him to do it. I would feel the same, maybe not so much for Kinky, but certainly my all-time political heros like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jesse Ventura, or Cong. Jeff Flake.

    If you’re not a Veteran or in the Military I can understand how you wouldn’t understand.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Congrats on your ManBadges, Donpedophile.

    You forgot about the Brown Heart you got for assraping an Iraqi orphan boy.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Sorry, I was out at sea. Never hit land in Iraq. Plus, I served from 1981 to 85. About 20 years before the Iraq War.

  • http://c4ss.org/ paulie cannoli

    Hey Paulie, notice you didn’t say anything about Arnold just vetoing those two bills that would have stopped petitioner’s rights in California? One of them would have kept petitioners from being paid to gather signatures.

    For this act, and this act alone, Arnold deserves our eternal gratitude!

    Well, I guess that makes up for him being a nazi, huh? Not.

  • Andy

    “but certainly my all-time political heros like Arnold Schwarzenegger”

    So you idolize a gun grabber?

    Govenor Arnold Schwarzeneggar Signs Ban on .50 Caliber Guns and Ammo
    http://www.gunshopfinder.com/legislativenews/schwarzenegger9_14_04.html

  • Andy

    “And you want to align us libertarians with these liberal slime? They are THE ENEMY OF LIBERTARIANS!!!”

    There are different types of “liberals” just as their are different types of “conservatives.” I don’t think that Paulie is talking about the authoritarian members of the left. These people are a lost cause. I think that he’s refering to the civil libertarian leftists.

  • Andy

    “but certainly my all-time political heros like Arnold Schwarzenegger”

    You consider this guy to be one of your all-time political heros?

    Arnold’s (Bloated) Republican Budget
    http://ca.lp.org/lp20060117.shtml

  • paulie cannoli

    There are different types of “liberals” just as their are different types of “conservatives.” I don’t think that Paulie is talking about the authoritarian members of the left. These people are a lost cause. I think that he’s refering to the civil libertarian leftists.

    Yes, that would be correct.