Oopsie! We Tortured the Wrong Guy

Oops! Even though we deny that we actually torture people, we accidently tortured the wrong person. Our bad. You want to sue us? So sad.

After intervention by the Bush administration, an American judge last month dismissed a lawsuit by a German Muslim who was seeking to sue the CIA for allegedly kidnapping him to Afghanistan and torturing him by mistake.

Sitting in a district court in Virginia, where the CIA has its headquarters, T S Ellis, the judge, said he was satisfied after receiving a secret written briefing from the director of central intelligence that allowing the lawsuit to proceed would harm national security. In times of war, he said, the plaintiff’s “private interests must give way to the national interest in preserving state secrets”.

Yet another reason why the Bush regime makes me feel proud to be an American. I think I’ll go buy a few more flags and perhaps a few more of those yellow “Support the Troops” car magnets.

posted by Stephen Gordon
  • Michael Hampton

    Yeah, the widely reported state secret of the CIA torturing people in secret prisons.

    BTW, we really need to find some way to keep you in the loop on news. This is a month old. :) Or maybe I need to start posting over here more…

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    Stephen

    Walmart has the best prices on flage and the magnetic ribbons. I hope you consider placing the ribbons on all sides of your vehicle. Oh, I forgot. You are now in DC and who the hell there supports the troops? On second thought, better not put the ribbons on your vehicle. Someone may attack you and your car. Better to wait until you pass through rural America. The real antiwar leftists don’t seem to congregate there. Is it because we really support the Second Amendment and they are afraid of us? I hope so.

  • http://www.libertyforsale.com Timothy West

    of course all of Walmart’s US flags and support teh troops ribbon are made in China now.

    We abandoned our manufacturing base when we wrote tax laws designed to make goods made 5000 miles away in other nations cheaper than goods made in the same town here in America.

  • Rick Rajter

    Washington certainly supports our troops… they are the paws doing their bidding.

  • Rick Rajter

    I meant “pawns”

    paws just sounds stupid in that sentance :)

  • http://www.libertyforsale.com Timothy West

    OT:

    Did anyone get a good quality vid copy of Bush’s press conference of June 15th? I need footage from that to make another vid. I was mobile during it and I had he eye tv set on the wrong time, so it taped it 12 hours after. :(

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    Rick Rajter

    I differ with you. Washington DC citizens are not supporters. It is the politicians that are really from somewhere else living there as long as jackasses keep voting for them. I still do not believe one wants to be riding around with anything that remotely resembles an emblem supporting our troops. Remember, I am one that believes you antiwar assholes are lying when you say you support our troops but oppose the war.

    Why don’t you be true to your beliefs and admit you despise the individual soldiers and at least be as honest as your parents by looking up military personnel and throwing urine and feces on them, spitting on them and even throwing blood on them. Now that was brutal honesty. They vilified the ones doing the killing.

  • http://www.phillies2008.org Jake Porter

    Rick,

    Washington D.C. voted 90% for Kerry.

    I almost forgot, Kerry supported the Iraq war.

  • http://www.phillies2008.org Jake Porter

    I still do not believe one wants to be riding around with anything that remotely resembles an emblem supporting our troops.

    I imagine it would be like going to Des Moines, Iowa and smoking a cigar in public or a private business, refusing to wear a seat belt, and carrying a gun with you.

    I think the Iowa state legislature and current governor of Iowa all hate me because I encourage personal freedom and small government.

  • Stephen VanDyke

    Julian: Bullshit, that’s like bitching at the checkout cashier because the manager sets the prices too high in the grocery store. I obviously take issue with the store manager when the shop is run stupidly and ineptly.

    In reality though, the cashier/troops can’t quit their job with impunity if they so desire, I don’t get to shop at another store/military when the products/war sucks, and the manager’s/Coc’s/SecDef’s job isn’t on the line if he runs the store into the ground.

    Your strawman arguments are getting pretty weak, but thanks for the practice in poking holes in them.

  • GreginOz

    “Please stay on-topic, informative and polite. We reserve the right to remove comments for whatever vague capricious reasons seem reasonable at the time.” LICK MY HAIRY SACK
    :-)

    What does it say when America YAWNS about fuckin’ torture? This so sucks. Fuck the troops, I hope the 2 kidnapped soldiers get friggin’ waterboarded, electrocuted and have Lindy Englundullah put them in simulated sex poses whilst dogs bite their balls. Fuck the war, fuck governments, fuck Islam & Kristinanity, fuck Buddha and fuck you, Julian.

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    GreginOz

    I applaud you for being the only honest antiwar asshole I have heard from since Vietnam. You deserve to be congragulated for your courage. I like your stand because you are not hiding and ducking. That is why I have no respect for the majority of the antiwar protestors. They are living a lie. Maybe you can shit in your hand and find a soldier to throw it on. Maybe you will throw it on me. I hope so because I am itching to be honest to my beliefs. Bring on the Second Amendment.

  • Rick Rajter

    Julian,

    Funny. So I assume all the people in Washington are truly going to war just to spread democracy and have no evil intentions.

    BTW… haliburtons profits are up an alleged 600% since the war started. Perhaps we can use some of that money to pay the widows and families that have lost their kids lives for a bullshit war for bullshit profits.

    Nah, you’d rather they go over and kill “sand niggers” for our freedoms. Well guess what, our freedoms are gone anyway. And it had nothing to do with Iraq, Iran, or any country that ends in “stan”.

    Dipshits in DC are using soldiers are fodder and they don’t give a flying fuck how many of them die. They merely parade around “freedom” and “democracy” so that americans can quickly grab their flags and start waving them.

    Welcome to 1984…

  • http://none Chris Hickman

    To be a little more on-topic…

    What do you even say or do when you get this kind of result in our court system? It’s over folks, enjoy the bus ride off the cliff. Rome-merica is about to fall.

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    Rick Rajter

    You are jealous because I am a capitalist and invested in Haliburton days before the Iraq war began. I have made a ton of money. Why don’t you be a capitalist and quit bitching. Might as well make a profit. I learned that from Vietnam when I wished I had money to invest in PAE International but could not afford it on soldiers pay.

  • http://warcriminal.freeservers.com Sol

    I know Julian supports our Chinese ribbon makers.

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    Sol

    Do you buy only American made products? Even most of the parts of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle are foreign produced.

    If you do buy only American then you don’t have anything. We don’t make much anymore. We are consumers and not much else. It is a real shame. We can do better.

    I believe since we outsource almost everything including critical defense systems, then we might as well outsource our military. Why not fight by proxy and hire mercenaries from third world countries? We can then fight wars anywhere, anytime and have no American casualties. That way, no muss, no fuss and nothing for the antiwar protesters to use as a reason not to fight a war.

  • GreginOz

    http://www.metalstorm.com/
    Julian, invest in this!

  • Rick Rajter

    I’m a capitalist too… But there is a thing called “game theory” and “prisoners dilemna”, which show that its not always in our best interest just to try and locally maximize profit/happiness.

    For instance, I can make a shit load more money if I just quit this whole libery movement thing and go work on wall street in the derivatives market. But, if the country goes to hell and a hand basket, I’ll have money, but I’ll also have a chip in my hand and won’t be able to go to the bathroom with out big bro’s permission.

    So great. You made some money investing in the war machine. No wonder you’re trying to keep the war going… it’s not about principle, it’s just buisiness!

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    Rick Rajter

    I was once an idealist at your age and thought I could change the world. Give it time, boy, and you will also become a pragmatic realist.

  • http://www.pnar.org Tom Blanton

    Poor Julian, just days ago he was writing that it just isn’t fair that libertarians call him a neocon for his views on the war. Yet, it is perfectly acceptable for him to call libertarians antiwar assholes as he brags about profiting from war.

    Perhaps he doesn’t realize what most libertarians know: that preventive wars of choice, huge govt agencies like the DHS, massive spending and debt, the erosion of civil rights, the loss of privacy, and jingoistic politicians that ignore the Constitution are all antithetical to limited government.

    Obviously, these things have never crossed Julian’s mind.

    So, it comes as no surprise that libertarians would call poor Julian a neocon. If he came to a libertarian gathering where I was, I just might call him far worse – especially after he calls me an antiwar asshole.

  • Stephen VanDyke

    Julian: If by pragmatic realist, you mean giving up, then I don’t follow you. I would like to know your definition of how we can effect change, because bitching alone is not getting the job done. We have to get constitutional limitations and good national stewardship back into our government otherwise we will continue to slide into totalitarianism.

    Our country is rotting from within, and the blame is sqaurely on bad governing. It’s not gay marriages or lack of ten commandments stamps in every post office, it’s men who are enriching themselves by looting our coffers (woops… “pork”) and seizing more centralized power (fer terrists, ya’ll). Call yourself what you may… you must at least want to reverse some parts of government gone bad.

    Don’t just get on the defensive… what’s your ideas?

  • http://www.libertyforsale.com Timothy West

    Communism —> Terrorism. Notice how lost these people were in the time frame between the fall of soviet communism and the rise of terrorism?

    Without a “ism” to fight, The Republican Party is sunk. Tey have to have a new war every 3 to 5 years or tey dont gt any more weapons contracts. They take all of our shit overseas and just dump it there. Then they demand they need more shit like the shit they just left overseas. Endless loop.

  • john

    This one ranks right up there with Hirabayashi v US as a dark day in US Justice

  • Mike R

    I think I understand one point Julian made. It would be better to have money invested in a war profiteering company than not.

    Although I would not support the means by which the company is making money. If I knew what was going to happen on 9/11 and there was nothing I could do to stop it, I would have invested in Haliburton, and sold short American and United Airlines. My first choice would have been to stop it. It may be hypocritical to libertarian values, but it is capitalism.

    If I became wealthy as a result, I would support libertarian causes, much more than I currently do.

    Julian, ever heard the slogan “Support Our Troops. Bring ‘em Home!”? I feel bad for the soldiers that were duped into joining, who were duped when their contracts were extended without limits, and who want to come home. There are many causes I believe in. I have the luxury of being able to support my beliefs without facing jail. Many soldiers do not. Still, I wonder what I would do.

  • paulie

    What do you suppose constitutes hating the troops more: spitting on them, or killing them by the thousands and maiming them by the tens of thousands? That’s not even counting the mental illness, homelessness, drug abuse, suicide, and other symptoms of post-traumatic stress syndrome affecting troops and their families.

    If being against the war is hating the troops, does killing them constitute love?

    Remember, when warmongers says they support the troops, they really mean they SPORT the troops.

    By the way, Halliburton makes its money off government contracts. That means they use stolen tax money. How can that type of capitalism be consistent with being a self-described libertarian?

    I like Julian’s idea of using mercenaries, but I must still insist that I not be taxed against my will to pay for it.

    Forcing people to pay for wars (or anything else) they oppose is morally wrong. Any so-called libertarian should not have to have that explained to them.

  • john

    okay, this is bullshit. IN CASE NOBODY’S TOLD YOU THIS CASE IS ABOUT THE TORTURE OF A MAN BY THE CIA, NOT ABOUT ANY PERSON IN UNIFORM AT ALL. Take your agitprop and shove it up your asses, alla ya

  • Julian Van Dyke

    GreginOz

    Re: Comment 11

    You got your wish for bad things to happen to the two soldiers. I bet you feel good, you asshole piece of shit. You know what happened to them?

    1. Hung by their hands tied behind their back until their shoulders dislocated and arms broke 2. Burned and shocked
    3. Finger and toe nails removed
    4. Hacked with knives
    5. Testicles hacked off
    6. Heads sawed off
    7. Hearts cut out
    8. Disemboweled
    9. Testicles stuck in their mouths (each from the other soldier)
    10. Bodies wired with explosives

    This was done proudly by the so called fundamentalists in the name of Allah and Islam, the religion of peace.
    Now, where is the world outrage over this? There is none only outrage over GITMO and hatred for our soldiers. All you peace loving antiwar activists can kiss my ass. We will hunt down the murderers and kill them one at a time.

  • GreginOz

    Ah Julian, it pains me that ANYONE dies in this illegal war, even professional serial killers. Lemme see, 200-300,000 DEAD civilians (not counting the 500,000 dead children from the +91 sanctions – ‘tho Albright said that was “worth it”) VERSUS a paltry 2500 US soldiers. How many innocent men and boys have been tortured in Gitmo and Abu Graib? Who trained the Death Squads (Negroponte)! See this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901211_pf.html
    and tell me the USA has the moral right in this. PS what is it with your obsession with ‘cloacas’? Your love affair with poo is disturbing my pristine mind a la Barbara Bush. And, please, a little intellectual rigour; the issue of cultural relativism (Islam Vs Chrisianity) is TOTALLY seperate to the issue of illegal invasion and destruction of infrastructure. A war crime is a war crime, white, brown or black, you arsehat.

  • Julian Van Dyke

    GreginOz

    Want to meet me in person?

  • IanC

    Julian — why don’t you try meeting up with any of these guys whilst wearing a turban & a middling-dark tan, in Baghdad — see how well it works out for you.

    http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,19554416-5001027,00.html

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    IanC

    Why would I want to do that? Those soldiers are my type of people. If we put the fear of all fears in those Muslims (including those that invaded this country) our problems would be over. I say tit for tat. They kill one of ours, we randomly kill 25 of theirs. After a short time, they would get the message that killing an American would be a bad thing to do. I support the troops. Killing is what war is all about. You kill more of them than they kill of you and soon you win.

    Why would they not kill everything that moves? No matter what they do, they will be labeled baby and women killers so might as well live up to the labels.

  • IanC

    Julian — are you literally that vapid?

    The idea to cow down a society of insane, suicidal hatred… is to kill more people who weren’t doing anything to us? Every innocent Muslim killed will result in a minimum of one additional fundamentalist willing to strap a bomb to himself.

    Get this through your head: WE CREATED THIS MESS! We have no moral vindication on this subject. They believe — based on historical actions — that we have the absolute goal of the destruction of their religion. We are *THE DEVIL* to them.

    If the devil killed your family and everyone in your town but missed you because you were on vacation… would you back down because he *might* kill you too? Or would you take whatever you had, despite how useless it may be, and go down fighting?

    These soldiers, Julian, took a man who was doing nothing wrong, and shot him in the head because they felt like it.

    If you advocate the same… A) how in any sense are you libertarian, and B) how are you sane?

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    IanC

    If I read you correctly, you state they shot him in the head because they felt like it. How do you know? Are you a Divine Power? Do you believe they are guilty without even having due process? Do they forfiet their Constitutional rights just because you believe they should or is it because you believe soldiers are third rate dirt bags and should have none of the protections given to common murderers, rapists and pedophiles?

    The last time I watched someone sworn in to the military, he had to swear an allegiance to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. If they are asked to possibly die for whatever cause, whether you agree or disagree, does this mean they are not afforded the same treatment, even you would have, presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Don’t lecture me as to whether I am sane or a libertarian. I declare myself a libertarian and refuse to get in goose step with antiwar libertarians.

  • IanC

    Julian — they are currently undergoing article 32 hearings to determine if the death penalty is appropriate for their actions. The death penalty is not proposed unless it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt going into the trial that the men involved are in fact guilty. Now, they have the opportunity to overturn the evidence, and if so I will not include any given individual in the current statements. But the fact remains; there are atrocities occurring, and have been occurring, for decades. You can’t justify that simply by waving a flag. Quite frankly, I *AM* one of those people who believes the officers who left Abu Ghraib unsupervised ought to be shot. This carries, in my personal opinion, up the chain to Donald Rumsfeld, the man who *encouraged* torture as policy. Keep in mind further that a large portion of the prisoners of Abu Ghraib were never put on trial to determine if they were, in fact, “insurgents.”

    Legally they’re still innocent of the things they did.
    (cont’d)

  • IanC

    (cont’d)
    But that doesn’t change the factuality of the events involved.

    Further — just because you swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution means that’s what is actually being done *BY* you. (George W Bush II ring a bell? Howsabout Donald Rumsfeld — the man who recommend*S* — STILL — torture as punishment of prisoners whom never received trial — but Abu Ghraib *AND* Guantanamo Bay prison facilities.)

    The concept, “We’re going to be called baby & woman killers, so we might as well live up to the name” … is fucking *STUPID*. (I apologize to HoT for the language.)

    Julian, lots of people here call you republican, right-wing, and fascist. Why don’t you just go become one and leave us alone, if you believe that kind of logic?

    The war on *TERRORISM* I support whole-heartedly.

    The war on Iraq is not a part of it. Afghanistan, I’m supportive of (conspiracy theory aside). Iraq was an act of evil and aggression. America *WILL* come to regret it.

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    IanC

    I let myself get pushed around by people like your parents who were anti-soldier and antiwar (or so they said) while they were promoting Mao. Know what? I came out of hiding and will not allow scum bags like you disrespect our troops. I will defend them. What have you ever done for the privilege of being an American? Are you like most of my children’s generation believing this country somehow owes you? I bet you are a taker and not a giver. I hope to insult you as you deserve it.

    My generation sold out to socialism, big government and every perversion known to man. Are you going to follow in your parents footsteps or be your own person? I bet you are the product of peace, love, LSD using, anything goes communal parents. Have I disrespected your parents enough to piss you off?

    I am a minority. I refused to participate in the stupidity of my generation. They have the government they deserve. Too bad your generation is screwed. Your parents did it.

  • IanC

    Corrolary, Re: Donald Rumsfeld & The US Constitution

    8th Amendment, US Constitution
    “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment08/

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment08/03.html#1

    Torture of any prisoners in the control of US Prisoners is a violation of the US Constition, and those whom endorse it are in DIRECT VIOLATION.

  • IanC

    Julian — with all honesty, you don’t know a damned thing about me.

    I have repeatedly and consistently refused to partake of any fiscal benefit from the state. This included an extended period (about a year) when I was eligible for unemployment and physical disability. I’ll either make it on my own or die trying. And you can rescind your statements, thank you very much.

    FYI; USAA membership is granted only to family members of USAA members and currently enlisted servicemen.

    I have been a USAA member since before I can speak, as was my father and his father before him. The *sole* reason I am not in the military and never will be is because I won’t take orders from anybody.

  • Julian (a Vietnam Vet)

    IanC

    You have conveniently omitted the atrocities committed against Americans. You must be a far left ANSWER socialist or anarchist defending the actions of our enemies by omission but constantly beating up on troops that may or may not be guilty of murder. Let’s see you address the mutilation of the two soldiers. You won’t except to imply they somehow deserved it.

    I was called a pig and baby killer during Vietnam. You are the pig and traitor in today’s world.

    I would like to meet you. Are you a supporter of the Second Amendment or are you in lock step with the ACLU? I bet you are a selective Constitutionalists.

  • Stephen VanDyke

    Julian: Stop trolling.

  • IanC

    SVD — thanks.

    For the record — I despise anyone who endorses the use of torture.

    Afghanistan is the sole front our troops belong in, right now, out of the fronts we are currently engaged in.

    I can think of three.