More TX Gubernatorial News

I mentioned recently that Kinky did a poor job in the TX gubernatorial debate. I said that he was full of the one liners that made him media’s darling, but he failed to deliver anything of substance. I said that he is no friend to libertarians and that Chris Bell did pretty well considering. (OK, considering that I am no Democrat and was being honest about the content of the debate.)

Apparently, some of Kinky’s supporters feel the same and Mr. Bell is using the info to encourage Kinky to drop out of the race.

Mr. Bell later confirmed he sought a meeting so he could try to talk Mr. Friedman into dropping out of the four-way race, which is in its home stretch. The election is Nov. 7.
“I had hoped to talk to Kinky privately, but now that it’s been reported by the Dallas Morning News, I’m going to ask him publicly: Please join me in defeating Rick Perry,” Mr. Bell said in a statement his campaign issued late Tuesday.
“Kinky and I agree on some very important issues and our supporters all have a lot in common: they want change.”

Kinky responded with:

“No. You’re kidding … for Chris Bell? What do you take me for?”

According to the DMN article, Kinky admitted that he did not bring his “A game” to the debate, but said to drop out would be unthinkable.

“I’d be letting a lot of people down.”
But he took delight in Mr. Bell’s message that the independent is taking a toll. “What can it possibly mean other than that we’re killing him?” Mr. Friedman said. “We’re getting all of the liberals. We’re getting all of the conservatives.”

You may wonder why I care to yap about this now. I am obviously a James Werner supporter. He is, after all, the Libertarian Party candidate in this race. You know, he is the one that was not invited to the debate. He is the one now talking about turning things upside down with a lawsuit against Belo.

Belo has poo-pooed the idea of a suit, but perhaps when it is filed, its reporters may actually get a story’s facts correct. This is not a four-way race. It is a five way race.

Presenting a lie as truth over and over does not make it more truthful. If it did, I would be 10 pounds thinner and 10 years younger. Belo may not like the libertarian, but like the fine lines around my eyes, he exists. And because that truth is presented to me over and over, I would like to do something a “little out there”-

I call for all four of the candidates featured on the debate program to withdraw from the race. I say that because I believe Mr. Bell is right about one thing. Texans want change. Politicking as usual ain’t gonna cut it this time.

Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Werner4Texas campaign. This is not a press release. I am, quite simply, an over-excited supporter.

posted by michelleshinghal
  • http://www.getkinky.org Jeremy

    I’m a Kinky supporter, and I tend to think whatever momentum Kinky (who, for what its worth, is on the record as saying he thinks Werner should have been in the debate) *may* have lost due to lack of polish in the debate, he’s just picked up with interest from the Chris Bell campaign. Getting a major party candidate to admit publicly how unexciting his campaign is and how much an independent candidate is hurting his chances is no mean feat, and riling up that independent candidate’s base while doing so is basically a political suicide trifecta.

  • http://getkinky.org Cody Bailey

    The Nader effect is what the Green & Libertarian Parties have been labeled with in past elections, which is a shame, but what I find funny being a Kinky supporter is that the democratic party is Kinky’s “Nader effect”.

    The majority of the “unlikely voters” are supporting Kinky. It’s a matter of whether or not they show up on Nov. 7th, or remember how to vote, since most of them havn’t voted since LBJ.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Jeremy is right on. Bell really stepped into it here. What a pathetic campaign ploy.

    And for those who think Kinky’s support comes from Democrats, nothing could be further from the truth. It’s individualistic Texas cowboys who lean Republican and even Libertarian who are supporting Kinky.

    Certainly, liberals don’t find much attractive about his stances, particularly on immigration and tax cuts.

    And the Pro-Marijuana crowd in Texas, even in wierd Austin, is firmly libertarian, NOT liberal.

    Texas is so Republican now that we essentially have three GOPers in the race: Moderate boring-ass Perry, Firestorm Tax Cutter Carole Keeton Strayhorn, and libertarian Republican Kinky Friedman.

    This is an intra-GOP battle. Statist-Authoritarian Bell is just a pathetic sideshow, in an otherwise libertarian-leaning State.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Michelle, no offense intended, but posting you “Call” on Hammer of Truth, is not going to get you much attention from the Texas media, nor Texas voters.

    That’s the problem with so many Libertarian Party people. They think blogging in the blogosphere is going to get noticed.

    Real Americans don’t visit on-line Blogs. Real Americans, unfortunately, still read the newspapers, watch Fox News and CNN, and listen to talk radio.

    Be a guest on Chris Baker – KTRH, Pat Gray in the Morning – KPRC or get a write up in the Dallas Morning News, and then it will matter.

  • http://UnCivilDefence.blogspot.com MRJarrell

    So, when can we expect you to stop visiting libertarian blogs, Eric? Obviously you’re wasting your time and ours.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Eric it was a joke. Think LL and a certain congressional race. I didn’t want to link to the embarrassment but real libertarians know exactly what I meant.

    For someone who complains about HoT not being read you seem to hang out here a lot. And for your suggestion

    Be a guest on Chris Baker – KTRH, Pat Gray in the Morning – KPRC or get a write up in the Dallas Morning News, and then it will matter.

    I do those things already. You see, I am the chairman in my county and we have REAL libertarians working their tails off to grow the LIBERTARIAN Party. Now please don’t confuse yourself and think that I meant everyone is 100/100 on the chart, but they certainly aren’t Republicans seeking to grow their base.

    Now if I only had a flyswatter.

  • Nicholas Sarwark

    Real Americans don’t visit on-line Blogs. Real Americans, unfortunately, still read the newspapers, watch Fox News and CNN, and listen to talk radio.

    Well, at least one talk radio show host reads HoT every morning.

  • http://libspot.org/member/mlaursen/blog1/ Mike Laursen

    If you’re planning on voting for a guy named Kinky is it likely you’re concerned whether he is going to deliver “anything of substance”?

  • http://www.free-thinkr.com Kevin

    Jeremy, I don’t know what you are talking about Chris Bell being a “major party canidate.” The Democrats are not a major party in Texas. The Libertarian party has more people running for national, state, and local seats than the Democrats. The nail went into the coffin of the Democrats when the Texas legislator redrew the US Congress districts. Before that they lost the Govenor, every state seat, and most of the Congress.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Dondero is so full of shit on so many levels.

    Eric, you’re an idiot. Read your beloved IBD. They just ran a story on the Monday edition about how more people in the key demographic are getting their news from blogs and online sources. Have you been following the newspaper stocks? They’ve been in the shitter for a long time. Their only strength is in the increase in online readership. Fucking idiot, I swear.

    Secondly, your hatred of Democratic voters is virtually genocidal. Do you really think that your dumb ass understands the demographics better than Bell and Kinky? And are you so deluded as to think that Democrats are for open immigration, while libertarians are not?

    And finally, Texas is libertarian? TEXAS? Home of the most state sponsored murders? Of sodomy laws? Of prolonged slavery and racism? Come the fuck on. Texas is a state full of right-wing hillbillies and horsefuckers. No offense to the minute minority of libertarians there – you probably know better than I do.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Newsflash: Dondero does not believe himself to be a real American.

    “Real Americans don’t visit on-line Blogs.”
    -Eric Dondero

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    And finally, Texas is libertarian? TEXAS? Home of the most state sponsored murders? Of sodomy laws? Of prolonged slavery and racism? Come the fuck on. Texas is a state full of right-wing hillbillies and horsefuckers.

    Don’t you understand yet? That’s what Eric means by “libertarian”.

    Before that they lost the Govenor, every state seat, and most of the Congress.

    Wait – there are no Democrats in the legislature? Doesn’t sound plausible.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Hmmm… When the Democratic Party represented racism and white hegemony, it dominated Texas. When the Republican Party took its place, it began to dominate Texas. Sounds very libertarian to me.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Absolutely (if you are not a real American, that is). Now all the Libertarian Party has to do to win Texas is….

  • undercover_anarchist

    No. Real Americans love NASCAR and watch their 401(k)’s “like a hawk.” (How does a hawk watch a 401(k)???) Real Americans are SWINGERS! Oops, not all caps. Just a capital “S,” right Dondy?

    Dondy has his finger on the pulse of “real Americans.” They love stockcars and the stock portfolios, but they hate the sanctity of marriage. What do you want to bet that Dondy Boy is one of those weirdos from the 60′s you read about who likes to see his wife get assfucked by a big Black buck? Eric, you should read Black Like Me and Soul on Ice (I’m sure you havent’), cuz I think you were profiled in both of them.

    I have an investment tip for Dondero. Go to tradesports.com and put all your money on a futures contract for a Republican-controlled house. Then watch that contract LIKE A HAWK. Mortgage the house, borrow as much as you can, etc. After all, I’m sure you have faith that the “real Americans” will do the right thing and return your fascist sect to the throne of power… Right?

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    If you don’t understand Texas, shut the fuck up about Texas.

    The vast majority of Texas is not racist, and it’s certainly not hillbilly-ish. Three of the top 10 metropolitan areas in the country are in Texas. Being Canadian is almost an excuse for making that mistake, but being from Michigan or Alabama is not.

    Texans are in fact libertarian in attitude (more so than other states, at least). Most Texans who vote Republican sincerely believe that they are voting for smaller government. Now more and more are beginning to recognize that that’s not what the Republicans are providing anymore, hence the insane governor’s race and the relatively high polling numbers of some Libertarian candidates (Our US Senate candidate, Scott Jameson, is at 7.1% in a three-way race, and that’s before he debates his opponents on the 19th).

  • undercover_anarchist

    Okay, so most Texans are libertarians? Sure.

    I live in MI. Most people here are stupid. If you said so, that doesn’t offend me, because I am not.

    Why do Texans have such a fierce nationalist streak?

    On my way to Roswell, I stayed at a bed and breakfast in a little town called Seagraves, TX. The locals were shocked to see an out-of-stater there. The town was totally depressed. I asked the museum curator, “What do people do here?” Her answer: “They work for the school or they’re on public assistance.” So they either work for the state or leech off the state? VERY libertarian.

    I’ll also mention that I picked up the town newspaper and it was painfully embarassing. Spelling errors, poor grammar usage, etc. I mean, really bad.

    One thing I couldn’t help but notice was how unusually integrated the town was. Whites, blacks, latinos all in large numbers in a small town. I saw no evidence of racism.

    I know this is just one town, but it certainly wasn’t “libertarian” and it was VERY backward

  • undercover_anarchist

    I’d also like to add that Texans voted for Democrats when they were not the party of small government, except for when it pertained to interfering in the oppression of blacks. Texans suddenly made the shift from New Dealers to small government advocates right around the time of the Civil Rights era. Hmmm….

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    I think Texas has a mix of different people with different attitudes. It’s by no means libertarian, but yes there are some libertarians there. Same as just about anywhere as far as that goes.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Democrats before 1932 were, relatively to Republicans, the smaller-government party.

    It’s true that Texas, like other Southern states, was predominantly Democrat until the 1960s, and is now overwhelmingly Republican.

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    Did I say Texans were Libertarians? No, I said that Texans were more libertarian than most. I’m talking about urban Texans that make up the majority of the state, not the rural towns that survive off of state assistance.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    http://www.texasescapes.com/TOWNS/Seagraves/Seagraves_Texas.htm

    Pop. 2334 (2000)

    U_A- you were in a very, very small town in West Texas- It is not surprising that you would find it backward.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Did I say Texans were Libertarians?

    You said:

    Texans are in fact libertarian in attitude

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Michelle, do you think Texas attitudes are more libertarian than most?

    I’ve had experiences in that states which might jibe with that, and others which most certainly don’t.

    It’s a balance, like other places.

    In some ways Alabama is more libertarian than New York; in others it’s just the other way around.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Of course I’m not trying to paint the entire state on one experience in one town. I’ve heard that Austin is one of the coolest cities in the country. But I’m basing my assumption that Nigel is wrong on the fact that Texans routinely vote Republican, and the Republican Party of Texas has a platform is that is virtually identicle to the Constitution Party. Is the CP “more libertarian” than the GOP? Than the Democrats? Then the socialist Greens? It depends on your definition. By my reasoning, you can’t get any less libertarian than the CP.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    I would say the National Bolshevik party is less libertarian than the CP. What do you think?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevik

    Dubai-ya is probably also less libertarian than the CP.

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    The ridiculous platform of the TXGOP is part of the reason why mainstream Texas Republicans are looking to other options. Perry signing bills in churches doesn’t help either.

    And what on earth makes you think that I’m wrong that Texans routinely vote Republican? They do; that should be clear from the fact that Republicans have won every statewide election in recent memory.

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    Paulie, reading my complete sentences usually helps. I said: “Texans are in fact libertarian in attitude (more so than other states, at least).”

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    I read it. But do you have anything to back that up?

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    And what on earth makes you think that I’m wrong that Texans routinely vote Republican?

    I haven’t seen anyone say otherwise.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    My opinion of TX as a libertarian state is a bit skewed. Most of my friends are libertarian at least in thought process but vote for the Republican side of the inbred Republicrat family.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Hmmmmm….

    Well, perhaps there’s a sizeable Republitarian contingent in and around Dallas and Houston and a good left-libertarian presence in Austin, but large parts of Texas (including big chunks of the metro areas) are mired in “Red State Fascism” …

    I’ve spent a few months at a time there on a few occassions.

    What do other folks here who have spent more time there think?

  • Michelle Shinghal

    It is very frustrating to know what a person thinks in his/her private life and then what they say at the polls. This is, unfortunately, a Red State when there is something on the line.

  • Andy

    Austin is a pretty cool place. The only bad thing is that I was threatened with arrest for petitioning to put the Libertarian Party back on the ballot at the University of Texas in Austin.

    I also got pulled over and questioned by the police a few times, probably because I had out-of-state tags.

    I also recieved a ticket at what I’d consider to be a speed trap. This was on a rural road outside Austin. The road went down a hill and changed to a lower speed limit on the way down. A cop hid in the bushes and popped out and gave me a ticket for $120. I was like 10-15 mph over the limit. When I went to pay it before I left they added on an additional $80 “fee” that was much to my suprise. I asked what the fee was for and the woman behind the counter said that it was for court costs. I asked, “I didn’t use the court, so why do I have to pay for it?” She replied,
    “Well it’s just a fee that goes to another agency.” I gave her the money and stormed out of the office.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    El Paso was about the worst place to petition ever.

  • Andy

    One really cool thing about Austin is an independent political talk radio station there called Radio Free Austin. It’s the best talk radio station that I’ve ever heard. If you are ever in Austin check it out.

    http://www.RadioFreeAustin.org

    Oh yeah, the University of Texas in Austin is the only public college in the country where I was completely denied the right to petition anywhere on campus. I got harrassed at other public colleges but none were as unreasonable as UT Austin.

  • Andy

    “El Paso was about the worst place to petition ever.”

    As bad as I heard the university in El Paso was at least you could do some petitioning there. At UT Austin one could not petition there at all. I actually saw the campus cops give a couple of petitioners tickets and escort them off campus.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Actually it took the sun, moon and planets all lining up for us to do the limited amount of petitioning we could do there. But you already know the story. Now, Albuquerque is not quite in Texas but…

    OK LET’S GO!

  • http://www.myspace.com/undercover_anarchist undercover_anarchist

    There are some semantic misunderstandings.

    I said “Texans routinely vote GOP, and the Texas GOP has a platform that is perversely right-wing – hence, my evidence that the state and its voters are NOT libertarian.”

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Best place in Texas to petition for the Libertarian Party?

    University of Houston. They have a policy to explicitly stating that all petitioners ARE ALLOWED all over campus. This stems, ironically, from a law suit brought forth by the Right to Lifers all the way to the TX Supreme Court a decade ago. The Pro-Lifers won. Univ. of Houston lost.

    Down side: Univ. of Houston is infested with a bunch of looney-tune Lyndon Larouchies who abuse the policy.

    When Jake and I petitioned for weeks there in 2004, we had to battle the Larouchies every step of the way. Added to that, a bunch of liberals tried to block us from gathering signatures too.

    Still, I got about 4,000 for LP ballot status in 2004 and most of that – maybe 80% – came directly from UofH.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Andy, join the club. My longtime petitioning partner Jake Whittmer of Alaska, the best Libertarian petitioner in the country hands down, was also kicked off of UT. I think he even spent some time in a jail cell over it.

    Liberals hate Libertarians with a passion. We are like Satan to them, cause we make Republicans seem rational and middle of the road. So, they block us every chance they get. UT is a bastion of left-wing politically correct libertarian haters.

    In Montana and Missouri this year, the liberals brutally blocked Jake and I at college campuses and even in front of grocery stores from getting petitions for stop the overspending and property rights.

    The groups sponsoring the blocking? ACORN, AARP and the Teacher’s Unions.

    Jake was literally surrounded in Butte, MT on Primary Day by 12 (!!!) Thug left-wing Blockers from AARP. He stood his ground, called them Communists, and still managed to get 400 sigs.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Regarding the Constitution Party.

    I just left Montana. I was there for 3 months petitioning for property rights and spending limits. There, the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party are closely aligned. You can’t virtually tell the difference. Except for abortion, where the CP is just nutso Pro-Life. But that doesn’t come up much when the LP and CP get together.

    In Montana, CPers regularly run as LPers, and vice versa.

    In fact, this year the CP will elect at least one state legislator. His name is Rick Jore from Poulson. He’s a shoe-in. And all the Libertarians up there are strongly backing him.

    Mark my words, Jore will seriously have an impact on the MT Legislature. He will really shake things up and garner statewide and even national attention when he is elected.

  • http://www.free-thinkr.com Kevin

    Andy,

    That speed trap is notorious.

    One person said something like, “There are no Democrats in the legislator? I doubt that.” In the House there is 86 Republicans and 64 Democrats giving the Republicans 58%. In the Senate there are 19 Republicans, 11 Democrats, and 1 vacancy giving the Republicans 61%. If you look who occupies the state-wide elected offices (govenor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, Cheif Justice, all the Supreme Court Justices, all the Appeals Court Judges, Railroad Commissioner, then you will see that they are all Republicans.

    http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/elected.shtml

    It is a fact that Democrats only run canidates in the legislator precincts they will absolutely or closely win. The only way they have a chance in 22 is by keeping Delay on the ballot.

    Since we are one a one-party state libertarians need to show the Democrats that they support civil liberties and the Republicans we support capitalism. Libertarians are the viable 2nd party

  • http://www.myspace.com/undercover_anarchist undercover_anarchist

    Real liberals love libertarians and eventually become them. In fact, real liberals = real libertarians. Even ignorant statist liberals are open-minded, and pro-personal liberty. Stop perpetraing lies, Dondyboy. Conservatves throw acid in the face of women who want to learn to read, lynch blacks, and burn witches at the stake.

    Real libertarians would never back a Talib like Rick Jore. As a pro-choice, pro-war person, you should be ashamed of yourself, Dondero. The CP is anti-war, pro-theocrachy. They’re only anti-war because they want their AmeriKKKan taliban state to concetrate its energies on putting swngers, I mean Swingers, like yourself into gas chaambers and making you into soap. These are the people who assassinated MLK for god’s sake.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    It is my understanding that Eric’s petitioning in Houston cost us a ton of dough. We had partnered with the Green Party that year and were trading out sigs- Dondero wouldn’t play nice. In the rest of the state, we simply had people sign both petitions. In fact, I found that my collecting the competitor’s sigs so that the person could have choice was a great selling point. People lined up to sign.

  • undercover_anarchist

    According to Dondero, “liberals” like the Greens “are our enemies and must be destroyed.”

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    Regarding petitioning for ballot access, I can’t see any reason why we should not be willing to cooperate with the Greens or any other third party, even if it were the Communist Party. We perpetually face this extremely costly obstacle of ballot access, being forced to divert precious resources away from campaigning and other outreach efforts just so we can have the privilege of having our candidates’ names on the ballot!

    We think it’s unfair that the Republocrats’ fear of having us compete with them on the ballot is used against us, so why should we be fearful of other third parties being on the ballot? In most cases, having other third parties there helps us because they are more likely to take votes away from the Big Two, not us.

    I’ll gladly support the kookiest Larouchie’s efforts to get on the ballot if they reciprocate.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Hey Dondero… The Wall Street Journal survey of economists found that, by a margin of 2 to 1, they say that the economy will best be served by a Democratic House in 2007 and 08. These are people who forecast the economy for money managers, insurance companies, large banks, etc. They have no political axe to grind. So I wonder if your imaginary “NASCAR Libertarians” will read this in the Journal and vote Democratic in the coming election.

    I will not vote for a Democrat unless there are no Libertarians or Greens on the ballot or the Libertarians and/or Greens are patently bad. I didn’t vote for John Kerry, but I hoped he would win. By the same token, I sure as hell hope that the Democrats take the House, maybe even the Senate. Both the economy and liberty will be best served. If the GOP can somehow fend off the rollback of investor tax cuts, that will be even better. But I’ll trade my unfair tax break on dividends and capital gains for a balanced budget and an end to the Rape of Iraq.

  • Andy

    “Liberals hate Libertarians with a passion. We are like Satan to them, cause we make Republicans seem rational and middle of the road. So, they block us every chance they get. UT is a bastion of left-wing politically correct libertarian haters.

    In Montana and Missouri this year, the liberals brutally blocked Jake and I at college campuses and even in front of grocery stores from getting petitions for stop the overspending and property rights.”

    There were also people petitioning to get Ralph Nader on the ballot in Texas and they were kicked off the UT campus in Austin as well.

    I ended up petitioning on the city side walks that were near the college campus in Austin. I did OK but I could have done better if I could have been on the campus.

    I’ve run into plenty of conservatives who’ve given me a hard time while gathering petition signatures. I’ve had them block me and call the police and pull all of the other tactics that the “liberal” blockers pull.

  • Andy

    I’ve actually had the police called on me 3 times for petitioning at gun shows. Once was for Libertarian ballot access, another was to Recall Grey Davis, and the other time was for Spending Limits and Stopping Eminent Domain Abuse.

    For the Libertarian and Spending Limits & Eminent Domain petitions I had the police run me out of the city owned fairgrounds. I ended up being able to stay for the Recall Davis petition but that is only because petitioning rights are more strongly enforced in California.

  • Andy

    “It is my understanding that Eric’s petitioning in Houston cost us a ton of dough. We had partnered with the Green Party that year and were trading out sigs- Dondero wouldn’t play nice. In the rest of the state, we simply had people sign both petitions. In fact, I found that my collecting the competitor’s sigs so that the person could have choice was a great selling point. People lined up to sign.”

    You must be confusing the Green Party petition with the Ralph Nader independent petition. In Texas it is actually illegal to sign for more than one political party or more than one indepenent, however, a person can sign for one political party and for one independent.

    The Green Party didn’t have any money in Texas so their petition was only circulated by volunteers and they didn’t even come close to making it on the ballot. Ralph Nader did pay for petition signatures but he ended up not making it on the ballot either for 2 reasons, #1) was because there is an earlier

  • Andy

    deadline in Texas for independent candidates than there is for political parties, and #2) was because they were disorganized. The Nader campaign thought that they could overturn the earlier deadline for independent candidates in court which they should have been able to do if not for a crooked judge. I said that they were disorganized because they had the money and even with the harrassment of petitioners and the earlier deadline for independents they still could have made it on the ballot in Texas had they done a better job of planning things.

    I went to Texas for the purpose of putting the Libertarian Party back on the ballot but I ended up working the Ralph Nader petition as well. It was members of the local LP that gave me the Nader petition and encouraged me to get signatures on it because of the deal that they had with the Nader campaign where petitioners for both campaigns would work the other’s petition. All of the Nader petitioners that I saw were working the LP too.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Ralph Nader certainly bears no malice towards the LP. He even thinks of himself as a libertarian, which of course, he is not. I voted for Ralph Nader in 2004 because he was the strongest anti-war, anti-duopoly candidate. I would also like to add that despite their endorsement of him, Nader has very harsh words for socialists. I actually feel sorry for the socialists who support Nader. They must feel like battered wives.

  • Andy

    I’m not really a Nader supporter myself but I figured that since Nader stood no chance of winning, and since I consider Nader to be less toxic than Bush or Kerry, and since local LP members wanted me to work it, why not.

    In Eric Dondero’s defense, if he did not want to work on the Nader petition that was his perogative. I only collect signatures on petitions that I agree with or where I’m nuetral. If Eric Dondero felt uncomfortable collecting signatures for Ralph Nader then why should he have been pushed into doing it? Petitioners should be able to work on or not work on whatever causes they chose.

    As far as money goes, petitioning is a lot of work and most people don’t like to do it. If there were more volunteers willing to collect signatures than there’d be no reason to hire people, however, since most people don’t like to petition or don’t have the time to petition, it becomes necessary to hire people. A lot of activists would prefer to donate money rather

  • Andy

    the time and effort that is involved with collecting petition signatures.

    Also in Eric’s defense, he allowed some petitioners to stay at his home for free. These petitioners would have otherwise had to stay in motel rooms which would have cost the party more money.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Andy, you are absolutely right- it was a Nader petition. I misstated that. Nader’s petition group and we traded. I was not mistaken about Dondero though.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    We paid heavily in the Houston area for petitioning.

  • Andy

    “Ralph Nader certainly bears no malice towards the LP. He even thinks of himself as a libertarian, which of course, he is not. I voted for Ralph Nader in 2004 because he was the strongest anti-war, anti-duopoly candidate.”

    Why didn’t you vote for Michael Badnarik? Badnarik is anti-war and anti-duopoly and is certainly a lot better than Ralph Nader.

    “I would also like to add that despite their endorsement of him, Nader has very harsh words for socialists. I actually feel sorry for the socialists who support Nader. They must feel like battered wives.”

    Nader has a few issues where I agree with him but overall I’d call him a socialist. As I said above, I consider him to be less toxic than Bush or Kerry but he’s not a candidate that I’d get excited about.

  • Andy

    “We paid heavily in the Houston area for petitioning.”

    Maybe that’s because the petitioners working the Houston area collected a lot of signatures.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Per signature.

  • Andy

    I hate to turn this into a monetary discussion, but I later found out that some petitioners were getting paid more than others per signature. I don’t know what Eric was getting but I’m pretty sure that Jake (who was in Houston) was getting what I got. I later found out that there were some petitioners who were getting paid at a slightly higher rate (although I know that there were other petitioners who got paid less than me as well) and when I found this out I felt like I got screwed a little because Texas turned out to be a difficult place to collect signatures.

    The access to locations to collect petition signatures SUCKS in Texas. As I said above, UT in Austin was not allowing any petitioning anywhere on campus which is something that I’d never seen before. Petitioners were getting kicked out of most other places as well. Another thing that makes Texas hard is the primary screen out. If a voter voted in a primary election (which is held before the petition drive can

  • Andy

    start) they are not allowed to sign a petition to put anyone on the ballot. I was strictly abiding by the primary screen out so I had to turn down people from signing who wanted to sign if they voted in the primary election that year. I lost a bunch of signatures every day because of this.

    It’s not unheard of for different petitioners to have different deals with some deals being better than others. It’s just annoying when you find out later that some had a better deal than you did, of course some had a worse deal than I did as well.

    I doubt that the petitioning costs in Houston was anything that was unreasonable. If one wants to be assured success on a petition drive than one needs to pay whatever the market rate is. Nobody who traveled to Texas to work on the petition drive HAD to do it. There were petition drives going on in other states where they could have made just as much money, maybe even more money. I know that I could have made a lot more money if I’d gone

  • Andy

    to Washington to work on the initiatives that were going on at that time. The reason that I didn’t go was because most of the initiatives that were going on were for causes that I did not agree with and I prefered what was going on in Texas even though the earning potential was lower.

  • undercover_anarchist

    Andy… You can call Nader a socialist, but you’d be inaccurate. I mean, you can call him that as an epithet, but there are real socialists out there, and he’s not one of them. And I voted for him because my politics at the time were more closely aligned with his than with Badnarik’s. While my politics are now more aligned with the Libertarian Party, I still would have voted for Nader in 2004 because he was the most vocal anti-duopoly, anti-war candidate.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Andy, I certainly give you that petitioning was hard in TX. I was not a paid petitioner, but I used lunch breaks to collect sigs at the local community college. (This particular campus was very accomodating.) I also took the DART train back and forth to Dallas and picked up sigs along the way- very captive audience. My stories are not as bad as yours, but maybe women are harrassed less. Friends and I met paid petitioners to notarize sigs and some paid petitioners even stiffed me on a drink bill at Humperdinks while we collected their sigs. I NEVER want to have to petition for ballot access again. Please vote for your libertarian candidates this Nov. 7th.

  • Andy

    “Andy”¦ You can call Nader a socialist, but you’d be inaccurate. I mean, you can call him that as an epithet, but there are real socialists out there, and he’s not one of them.”

    Well, a person can be a voluntary socialist – such as those who live in hippie communes – but beyond that I consider socialism to be a bad thing. Nader sure sounds like a socialist to me. He supports government healthcare, government schools, minimum wage, etc… I call that socialism. Nader’s got some issues where I agree with him but this does not erase the fact that overall he’s a socialist.

    “And I voted for him because my politics at the time were more closely aligned with his than with Badnarik’s. While my politics are now more aligned with the Libertarian Party, I still would have voted for Nader in 2004 because he was the most vocal anti-duopoly, anti-war candidate.”

    I don’t hold it against you for voting for Nader in 2004. You’ve obviously “seen the light” since you now support

  • Andy

    the Libertarian Party. Also, as I said above, I do consider Nader to be less toxic than Bush or Kerry.

    I don’t see why you’d vote for Nader again if you could do it over. If you want a libertarian society or even if you just want to send a message it seems to me that it would be more productive to vote for Michael Badnarik than Ralph Nader.

  • Andy

    “Andy, I certainly give you that petitioning was hard in TX.”

    Petitioning can be hard anywhere, but Texas is certainly above average difficult.

    “My stories are not as bad as yours, but maybe women are harrassed less.”

    I’ve seen women get harrassed for petitioning. The reason that your expierence wasn’t as bad is probably because you didn’t spend as much time collecting signatures.

  • Andy

    “Friends and I met paid petitioners to notarize sigs and some paid petitioners even stiffed me on a drink bill at Humperdinks while we collected their sigs.”

    I’d be willing to bet that these paid petitioners were just pure mercanaries, which is what most paid petitioners are. There aren’t that many paid petitioners who are also activists.

  • Michelle Shinghal

    I’ve seen women get harrassed for petitioning. The reason that your expierence wasn’t as bad is probably because you didn’t spend as much time collecting signatures.

    True. It was not my paying job at the time, so I used lunch and vacation time to do it. I still do not want to do it again.

  • Andy

    “True. It was not my paying job at the time, so I used lunch and vacation time to do it. I still do not want to do it again.”

    This illustrates why there is a need to hire paid petitioners.

  • Andy

    “Andy,

    That speed trap is notorious.”

    Yeah, I saw cops there every night, and on several of those occassions I noticed that they had cars pulled over and were writing out tickets. Tickets must be a big source of revenue around there.

  • Andy

    “University of Houston. They have a policy to explicitly stating that all petitioners ARE ALLOWED all over campus. This stems, ironically, from a law suit brought forth by the Right to Lifers all the way to the TX Supreme Court a decade ago. The Pro-Lifers won. Univ. of Houston lost.”

    It seems to me that since the Texas Supreme Court decided that case it should have been applied to all public colleges in Texas.

    I later heard that UT Austin had lost some kind of free speech case about a year or two before the 2004 petition drives. They MUST have known that what they were doing was wrong, but obviously they didn’t care.

    Campaigns need to be more organized about this type of stuff. When petitioners get harrassed and/or chased out of spots and/or arrested they can’t collect any signatures and this can cause a campaign to fail. Nader probably would have made it on the ballot in Texas if the access to locations to collect signatures had been better. There are major

  • Andy

    violations of 1st amendment rights and election laws that happen on every petition drive and the sad thing is that hardly anything ever gets done about it. Has anyone filed a lawsuit against UT in Austin? There are many other places and people in Texas and all over the country for that matter that deserve lawsuits for interfering with petition rights.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    In the rest of the state, we simply had people sign both petitions.

    We did not have Nader petitions in El Paso. We contacted the Nader campaign but they never called or emailed back. However, we were doing MPP email contacts as well as Libertarian ballot access.

    I seriously doubt access problems at UT had anything to do with it being “liberal” – in fact I have been told one story that it apparently has something to do with Bush being from Texas, and that a similar regulation was in place during LBJ’s reign of error.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Nader’s got some issues where I agree with him but this does not erase the fact that overall he’s a socialist.

    He’s not for complete government ownership of the means of production (economy), therefore not a full blown socialist.

  • Andy

    “I seriously doubt access problems at UT had anything to do with it being “liberal” – in fact I have been told one story that it apparently has something to do with Bush being from Texas, and that a similar regulation was in place during LBJ’s reign of error.”

    I don’t think that it had anything to do with LBJ. I think that they were just being @$$&*!#$.

    I heard that some pro-marijauna legalization activists went to UT Austin to work with some student group to get the campus to pass a non-binding resolution that said that marijauna ought to be legal and they were prohibited from collecting signatures (that would have brought the issue to a vote) on campus as well. This happened in either 2005 or 2006.

  • Andy

    “Nader’s got some issues where I agree with him but this does not erase the fact that overall he’s a socialist.”

    “He’s not for complete government ownership of the means of production (economy), therefore not a full blown socialist.”

    Well then he at least leans heavily towards socialism.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    I don’t think that it had anything to do with LBJ. I think that they were just being @$$&*!#$.

    Well, this was by way of Roger, so take it for what it’s worth.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Well then he at least leans heavily towards socialism.

    Compared to the duopoly, he favors a lot more regulations on business.

    Nader campaigned against the pervasiveness of corporate power and spoke on the need for campaign finance reform, environmental justice, universal healthcare, affordable housing, free education through college, workers’ rights, legalization of commercial hemp, and a shift in taxes to place the burden more heavily on corporations than on the middle and lower classes.
    -Wikipedia