Live Free You Are State Property

It is official. You do not own your body. You can be told where to smoke. You are told what drugs are prohibited. Some politicians are trying to tell you what foods to eat. If all this weren’t bad enough, a judge ruled yesterday that you can be forced to undergo medical treatment you might otherwise decline.

A week ago, I talked a little about Abraham Cherrix. Abraham has cancer and had opted for alternative therapy. The omnipotent state stepped in, awarded joint custody to itself and ordered that the young man submit to tests. Friday’s decision goes further and orders that the young man receive the treatment his doctor wishes to administer. Some people thought that I was a granola eating nut job when I first brought the issue to HoT. They must have skimmed over the part of my last piece that said that the young man’s alternative therapy had not been proven efficacious. Some people missed the point that this young man and his family should be left alone to pursue health in whatever manner they choose- this is not the state’s business.

I am now wondering what other kinds of court orders might come down to save us from ourselves. Married couple required to use condoms because she is a genetic carrier for NF. Forced HPV vaccinations for anyone who is sexually active? Forced workouts for anybody more than 20 pounds overweight? It’s coming. And when it arrives in full force, you can kick your own ass for dismissing libertarians’ slippery slope comments.

posted Jul 22nd, 2006 by michelleshinghal
  • ianbernard

    There’s only one solution.

    http://freestateproject.org

  • http://www.mywaronpoverty.com Becky

    Poor kid. Unfortunately, I’m in a situation similar to his. I have a mental illness. This gives the State of Indiana carte blanche to violate my civil rights.

    One day a social work grad student suspected I was suicidal. While I wasn’t, I did admit to hearing voices. She suggested I get some sleep–when I woke up a police officer handcuffed me and took me to the hospital, where I was admitted against my will. The next day the psychiatrist gave me a choice–either voluntarily stay or face a court order. I was held against my will for three days.

    The meds have caused me to gain 30 pounds, twitch noticably, and may be damaging my liver and heart. I would like to try alternative medicine, but if I do, they’ll get a court order on me. In any other country this would be facism. But here, it’s “treatment”–for my own good.

    But that’s nothing–they threatened to send a diabetic to the state mental hospital for refusing to take insulin.

  • JodyW

    This just takes the piss. I no longer want to pay taxes, that way, all these fucking losers who shove their nose into others lives will become so rightly unemployed. As much as I would like to see the blood of certain people water the tree of liberty, at the end of the day it ain’t worth it. More scum bags would just replace those who have been shot. The only way to stop this stupidity is the FSP and the eventual abolition of taxes. Every time we pay taxes we fund the jobs of fucktards like this judge who think they have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do to myself. If I am harming others then something needs to be done but if I am the only person who will suffer from the consequences of my actions then leave me be. I have yet to get a mature/logical response, free from hysteria, from friends and relatives, when I ask them to explain exactly how much of my money, my labours, my efforts, belongs to them and why. If you don’t have the balls to take my money yourself, fuck off.

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    Jody, you’re my hero!

  • Leroy

    On a similar note, Life Extension magazine recently wrote an article saying that the #1 cause of death in the US is conventional medicine. They estimate that between 800,000 and 1 million Americans die every year due to medical mistakes, unnecessary medical procedures, adverse reactions to dangerous pharmaceutical drugs, bedsores, and other causes directly related to mainstream medical care.

    So when the state forces an individual to undergo medical treatment that they don’t want, they will often be giving that person a death sentence.

  • IanC

    Maybe Abraham should sue for removal of custody from the state. He can do it.

  • http://boortz.com Quis

    Come on peoples! After all IT’S FOR THE CHILDREN!!! Remember, your government masters love you and everything they do is for the children.

  • Julian

    What if a woman is grossly ugly and plastic surgery can cure the appearance to make her more palatable to the rest of society, will surgery become mandatory in the future? I say yes because of the incremental interference government continuously ratchets up every day.

  • http:///www.overthehillchick.blogspot.com Dorothy Thompson

    I not only am a close friend of the family and am shocked at the verdict, but I am also an American citizen completely appalled at what rights they are taking from us. Is Hitler back in town? America isn’t a democracy…land of the free and the brave…they have sucked up whatever they can out of Abraham and his family and it’s only made me wise up to what America is really all about. They don’t care about the family. If they did, Abraham would be continuing his alternative treatment…now he will be forced to undergo yet another chemo treatment which totally interferes with the healing properties in his alternative treatment and can you imagine the stress he is feeling? Do you think that he’s going “Okay, well, I guess I have to do this.” No…he’s stressed beyond relief. I am no longer proud to be an American.

  • SSG Savage

    I am a soldier in the US Army, I am originally from Chincoteague where this family is… It is such ashame that my fellow soldiers and I give our lives and cripple our bodies and minds to ensure the freedom of our country… just so some judge can take away the rights of responsible citizens and families.

  • http://www.paaaps.com Dr H.

    I would like to know who the doctor is who is going to treat this person against his and his parent’s will. It violates the central tenet of ethical physician behavior and the standard of care. I would also consider it a clear case of malpractice. Treating a patient against his will is a guaranteed malpractice case, no matter what some judge says. The kid should retain a personal injury lawer (at least they are good for something) and sue, sue, sue if he even gets a runny nose from the treatment. Just because the state says he has to undergo treatment, it doesn’t remove a physicians duty to his patient. This judge will have a tough journey through medical school, an Internal Medicine residency, and then a Hematology/Oncology fellowship to do it himself.

  • IanC

    Dr H — actually, what they stated was that the boy and his parents *must* *CONSENT* to this treatment.

    So from a legal standard he’s required to willingly go through with this treatment, and no other.

    Ain’t that messed up? It’s thoughtcrime time, ladies ‘n gents.

  • Michael H. Wilson

    As someone who has to deal with cancer personally I read everything I can about it. The piece I’ve posted below is from the Philadalphia Inquirer. You have to subscribe to read the entire piece, but go to the library and get the copy dated below. This may be real big and there are clinics doing this. Keep in mind that this is theory and not proven and it is INTRAVENOUS

    Vitamin C revisited as cancer cure

    Source: Marie McCullough INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
    Is mainstream medical science ignoring an inexpensive, painless, readily available cure for cancer?. Mark Levine mulls this loaded question. The government nutrition researcher has published new evidence that suggests vitamin C can work like chemotherapy – only better. But so far, he hasn’t been able to interest cancer experts in conducting the kind of conclusive studies that, one way or the other, would advance treatment.. “If vitamin C is useful in cancer

    Published on June 18, 2006, Page A01, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)

  • Michael H. Wilson

    ran outa space above.
    As I was saying this is intravenous and not the over the counter pills and somehwere along the line I read that lymphoma patients had excellent results. That may have been another article.
    Someone get this young man some help before the government makes it worse.
    M.H.W.

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  • http://www.libertyforsale.com Timothy West

    I get to double my chemo dose starting on the first. 360 Mg of Temodar for the first 5 days of each month.

    I think this is where it’s gonna start to get bad.

  • Michael H. Wilson

    Tim you might want to check out that article on intravenous vitamin C. Just for info. I sure wish I had known about it.
    Of all the alternatives I have read about that seems the most promising.
    M.W.

  • http://UnCivilDefence.blogspot.com MRJarrell

    Worse part of this is that this family will end up doing just as the courts tell them to. Until people start saying, “Go to hell!” this crap will continue.

  • nemo

    Being repetitive, I know, but really, please look over this boook.
    http://hammeroftruth.com/2006/07/15/penn-jillette-on-hammer-of-truth/#comment-143241
    I know not all patients have the resources to visit the labs that he did, but worth noting for Tim that some of these treatments won’t accept you or are less effective if you’ve been on chemo.

  • Dubsiren

    I think this young man should “run away” and perhaps keep in secret contact with his parents so his parents can financially help him to get alternative treatment. Then he could avoid this life-threatening court-ordered madness. I tell you if it were me, by hook or by crook, if I had to live in an abandoned building or beg on the street, I would NOT submit to this crap. And he should “run away” as soon as possible, too, before the cops come and shackle him up and haul him to the doctor’s office. If he and his family make a stand like this, then perhaps the system will think twice before trying to force someone else into something like this. This is a litmus test to see how the public will react. The system doesn’t want thousands of dead kids on their hands becauase the kids lived on the street to get away from forced treatment. If Abraham and his family refuse to submit at any cost, the system will most likely back off in the future and realize that we are NOT going to put up with this!

  • http://www.titaniumgirl.blogspot.com elle

    Thanks for giving this story exposure Michelle.
    It is a terrible violation of personal rights and affects all of us whether we notice or not.

  • http://www.mywaronpoverty.com Becky

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  • Ryan

    I wonder if he’s too ill to shoulder a weapon?

  • http://www.paaaps.com Dr H.

    “So from a legal standard he’s required to willingly go through with this treatment, and no other.”
    That may be so, but it still does not remove or change the physicians liability. A doctor still has to see this patient and order and administer the medicine. If you couldn’t sue your doctor as long as you have “consented” to a treatment, then we wouldn’t have the malpractice crisis we have today. Even if he “consents” he should just sit there in the doctor’s office, look the physician right in the eye and say “I realize that the State has “consented” on my behalf, but if you administer this drug to me, I will immediately be filing a malpractice claim through the law offices of Onyer, Nees, and Swallow LLC. Thereafter I will also be filing a complaint with the State Medical Board to have your license revoked for intentionally providing a treatment against a patients will.” What I’m trying to say is that no judge, court, or lawyer can force a doctor to administer a particular treatment.

  • IanC

    Dr.H said: ” Thereafter I will be filing a complaint with the State Medical Board to have your license revoked for intentionally providing a treatment against a patients will.” ”

    Due to the legality of consent, this would be thrown out immediately. As would the malpractice if the doctor followed the proscribed (read: “standard”) treatment in the standard way, which let’s face it has a very high chance of success. But let’s assume it does not:

    Malpractice is justified, from what I know, through incompetance and failure to heed a patient’s wishes. Legally it is now Abraham’s wish to go through standard treatment. The doctors involved (Probably at a state-owned hospital at this point) would therefore only have the obligation to perform the treatment to the best of their ability.

    Abraham *COULD* sue — but the case would be summarily dismissed. This is a true example of thoughtcrime at its worst.

    (cont’d)

  • IanC

    (cont’d)

    Dubsiren’s suggestion in #19 is actually a very powerful one… if done properly, there’s really very little the state can do to force this.

    It would seem to me this would make a perfect ‘concientious objector’ scenario to the so called “omnipotent state syndrome.”

    Pacifistic resistance — I mean, what are they going to do? Go in shooting with a swat team if he doesn’t undergo treatment? If his parents feel that strongly about their son’s survival that they believe traditional therapies will not help him, would they be willing to go to prison for their son?

    With a name like Abraham Cherrix… strangely, I see that happening. Call me biggotted all you want. :)

  • michelleshinghal

    I personally like Dr. H’s suggestion of using the very regulation and bullshit suit threats that cripple doctors to cripple the state. Have you checked out the page linked to his name?

    http://www.paaaps.com/mambo451/index.php

    I am pretty sure that he is the webmaster of that site and also an M.D. Check it out.

  • http://www.paaaps.com Dr H.

    “Due to the legality of consent, this would be thrown out immediately. As would the malpractice if the doctor followed the proscribed (read: “standard”) treatment in the standard way, which let’s face it has a very high chance of success. But let’s assume it does not:”

    Getting a patients consent conveys absolutely no immunity from a malpractice suit. The consent is a non-issue and has no bearing on a malpractice claim. Neither does following “standard” treatment. Standard as defined by whom? I would argue treating a patient against his will is the most NON-STANDARD thing a doctor could do. A lawyer would have no problem putting other doctor’s on the stand to attest to this. Trust me, any doctor can be sued for anything. This is the real world – our system has nothing to do with reason, real justice, or right and wrong – I really wish it did. A personal injury lawyer would come up with some devastating disability that would require a few million $$$ without blinking an eye.

  • IanC

    Dr H — I think we can both agree that just because a thing *is* so doesn’t mean it *should* be so.

    However, I have a hard time buying that any litigation would result in success if the treatment was successful. Where we digress in this conversation is in the area of consent; as far as the state (and thus the courts) are concerned, the boy *IS* consenting. Because it says so.

    This is a travesty — that is for damned sure. I’m just having a hard time buying that civil litigation is going to rectify the situation; somehow I keep seeing the defense, “The State ordered me to do it; I was simply avoiding losing my state-provided license.”

  • GreginOz

    Thought crimes indeed, fascinating thread! reminds me of Bitter Old Punk being forced to undergo Evango brainwashing as rehab. Blech. Soon, if you don’t go to a State approved ‘Worship Facility” your kids will be taken away as they are not receiving a moral upbringing! As for the kid, if I was him, dieing of Hodgkins, I’d buy a gun and go and visit that judge…Mebbe that’d make the point? What to lose, life OR freedom? “Better to live on your feet than to die on your knees” (Midnight Oil)

  • Julian

    This is gender discrimmination at its best. A female his age can do what she wishes with her body. Her body is private property and she can have as many abortions on demand as she desires.

    Cherrix does not enjoy the same rights to his body. He must submit to the will of the state, or else.

  • IanC

    Gregin — heh. Worship Facility? Psshaw.

    Department of Reverential Administration. Nice ‘n generic ‘n non-establishmentary. Wouldn’t want to *violate the first amendment* now would we?

    I mean, how better to ensure that there is no establishment of any one religion than to turn the state INTO a religion itself?

    Then it won’t be taxation anymore, but *tithing*. Perfectly voluntary. Yup.

    … howcome pig-crap keeps falling on my head?

  • http://www.paaaps.com Dr H.

    Just saw on Hannity & Colmes that a judge returned full custody to the parents and have stayed the lower courts decision to force him to get chemo earlier today pending his full appeal.

    Good for him. Maybe someone will come to their senses here.