Bob Smither Participates in Candidate Forum with Lampson and Write-In Republican

Bob Smither faced-off with his oppenents at a candidate forum sponsored by the Fort Bend Chamber of Commerce on Thursday. According to FortBendNow:

Libertarian Smither, Republican write-in candidate Sekula-Gibbs and Democratic challenger Lampson spoke in that order. Each was given eight minutes, no rebuttal or audience questions were allowed.

Smither, a Libertarian, and the only candidate beside Lampson whose name will appear on the ballot, compared himself to Republican conservatives of an earlier era, saying he worked as a GOP volunteer for Barry Goldwater’s 1964 presidential campaign.

He criticized Lampson and Sekula-Gibbs, saying both have promised to fund special projects in the district that shouldn’t be paid for with tax money from people in the rest of the country, adding “in your heart, you know it’s wrong.”

Smither said he advocates passage of the so-called Fair Tax Proposal, which would abolish the IRS and replace the income tax with a single-rate federal retail sales tax collected at the point of purchase of new goods and services for personal consumption.

“A write-in candidate has never been elected to the House in Texas. Nick Lampson appeals to those who look to government for solutions,” Smither said, adding that he represents the only true conservative alternative.

Houston’s KPRC Local 2 has video footage here.

Crazy For Liberty reports that a recent staw poll of 100 randomly selected district residents shows Smither currently at 25% in a three-way race:

The telephone poll of 100 randomly selected district
residents showed:

Nick Lampson, Democrat: 41%
Bob Smither, Libertarian: 25%
Undecided: 23%
Shelley Sekula-Gibbs, Rep. 11%

Folks, Smither can win this thing. But time is running out and he needs your help now.

Older video coverage after the break.

Issues ForumOpening Statement:

Bob Smither Interviewed by KHOU-TV

posted by disinter
  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    This is utterly amazing.

    Do you guys realize that the Libertarian Party has been around since 1971, and to my knowledge there has NEVER been a candidate of the LP for Congress who has done this well.

    I have to go back and check old issues of LP News from the 1970s and 80s, but I’m almost certain.

    Bob Smither is the best Libertarian candidate for Congress in the 35 year history of the Party.

  • Timothy West

    yes, and probably half the party wont support him becuase he likes the Fairtax.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    25% is absolutely fantastic. And look at the Undecided number. More than enough room for Bob to win this thing.

    Sekula-Gibbs is right where I’d expect her to be; at 11%. My guess she’ll only go up a couple notches and maybe finish with 13 or 14% if she’s lucky.

    Actually, there’s a little last minute voting move towards the best placed challenger that may kick in for Bob. People will go into the voting booth, and if they judge Bob way ahead of Sekula-Gibbs with the better chance to win, they will pull the lever for him, and dump Sekula-Gibbs.

    So, it’s possible Sekula-Gibbs could tank on election day, and Bob could win this thing!

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Well, in fairness this situation has much more to do with Delay than with Smither, whatever his virtues. But I don’t say that to dump a bucket of cold water on things — this is really tremendous! And it’s an argument in favor of what the Democrats call the 50-state strategy, of having candidates in even what appear hopeless races because you never know when things will turn unexpectedly. (*cough* FL-16 *cough* NY-26 *cough* IL14?)

    How do they poll for a race with a prominent write-in candidate? Seems like the only fair way would be to ask, “Do you plan to vote for X, Y, or a write-in candidate?” then follow up if they indicate the last option. If someone says, “The Republican lady” or butchers her name, then I wouldn’t think that would count, since those answers won’t cut it on election day. Right?

  • ianbernard

    Too bad that he supports the “FairTax”, which will hook every American family on government welfare!

    More on the “FairTax”:
    http://www.mises.org/story/1975

    Maybe LP candidates should sign and understand the followin:

    YES, I certify that I do not believe in or advocate the initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals.

  • disinter

    Ian,

    Is the Fair Tax worse than we have now? Do you expect him to have ANY chance of winning if he came out and said “I want to abolish all income taxes right now”? That would be idiotic on his part.

  • ianbernard

    It would be idiotic for him to say that because abolishing income taxes can’t be done “right now”.

    Should he be against all taxation? Yes, as taxes are clearly force.

  • disinter

    Ian,

    Yea, you’re right. Libertarians should come out swinging like a bunch of lunatics. That has worked SO well since the party’s conception.

  • Tom Bryant

    Bob has said he is for less taxes, which does not preclude opposition to all taxes. If Bob believes that the FairTax is a step in the direction of no taxes, than he is just as philosopically libertarian as anyone else.

    How about we elect Bob to Congress first, and then we send him links about why the FairTax is bad and shouldn’t be supported. That’s the beauty of electing someone to Congress, he will more than likely listen to the people who elected him.

    On November 8th, let’s start a “Committee to re-educate Congressman Smither on the FairTax”. I’ll donate $500 to that effort if you donate $500 to his campaign. Deal?

    Or, we can try to convince Democratic Congressman Lampson that “tax and spend” policies are bad.

    What do you think the better choice for no tax advocates is in this race?

  • Artus Register

    It may behoove Smither (and us) to make a little more noise about slashing taxes. The write-in chick with the wide smile boasts on her site that she wants to:

    Cut Spending and Replace the Income Tax with the Fair Tax (Consumption Tax)

  • Lex

    Supporting the National Sales Tax may help Smither gain Republican votes in Texas, but it’s a waste of time and energy for Libertarians to support it. No, it’s no worse than what we have now, but it’s no better, either.

    Why not focus on cutting spending instead of wasting time, effort, and energy on something that offers no real improvement?

  • http://www.freestateproject.org Keith

    OK, I cave. I’ll give him some money if I am able to find a myspace page.

    BTW, Ian is right about the Fairtax. However, Smither is not the 1st libertarian to push for bigger government. Milton Friedman pushed for larger government (the income tax witholding) and he got his way. I would have supported Friedman for Congress and I support Smither because there is more than one issue that is important (there are 1000s).

  • Devious David

    Looks like I’ll be sending some money. We’ve had the FairTax debate here before. Let’s worry about helping the guy out.

    If 100% of the undecideds in that poll pulled for Smither, he would win. Hyphen lady might suffer from something Libertarians usually suffer from – chicken out balloting. When they see that Democrat right there and have a perception that Smither has a chance, they’ll pull for Smither. What Republican is going to pull for a Democrat in that case? Very very very few. The sycophants will go for hyphen lady.

    Mobilizing those undecideds and those non-voters to pull third party for change would be a coup and this is a good year to do it. I wouldn’t go after hard core Republicans too much at this juncture. I’d go for moderates and Republican leaning independents. This poll shows that there are only perhaps 11% Republican sycophants out there and we already know what they are going to do. Wasting effort on charming them will lose the middle.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Devious Dave is 100% correct. Hyphen lady will suffer from the voter fear of voting for a candidate with a lesser chance of winning. If she doesn’t move up bigtime in the polls in the next couple weeks, she will tank on election day, and Smither will gain all her support.

    I live next to this District. You guys can’t imagine the hatred that exists for the former Tax Collector Nick Lampson in Houston.

    Plus, Houston has two Big Time “libertarian” radio talk show hosts: Chris Baker (KTRH) and Michael Berry (KPRC). They drop the ‘l’ word like it’s going out of style. So, Houstonians are not afraid of libertarians.

    Really guys, do you realize how amazing this is? Can you imagine on election night, CNN and Fox News reporting results for Texas CD-22 “Tom DeLay’s old District” and the reporterette having to announce “Libertarian Bob Smither wins over Democrat Nick Lampson…” The whole country will see that. And the Dems will be crushed!

  • Rance Muhamitz

    This poll was only 100 people! Can that even be considered worthy of mentioning?

    And how the fuck can a write-in candidate get into a debate, but most libertarians get screwed? The system is rigged!

  • R. E. Lee

    Is it too late for hyphen-lady and her supporters to pull out (unspecified health reasons) and throw her support to
    Smither? It will be far less embarrassing for the GOP to have Smither win than Lampson. Get to work behind the scenes on the Texas GOP and RNC to put a deal in place.
    That’s what political parties do.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    R.E. that’s an excellent point. Problem is the Smither Campaign had a very small window to accomplish this; about a week after it was clear DeLay would be on the ballot. The Campaign was not prepared for this. It was just basically Bob and Kevin all by themselves. And they didn’t have enough campaign funds to impress the GOP as a serious campaign.

    I think it’s too late now. But 24 hours is a lifetime in politics. If the Hyphen lady tanks all of a sudden, perhaps Bob, Kevin and the team can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

  • Devious David

    I really think Smither could win the election, but we won’t likely ever know. I think vote fraud WILL be resorted to if he does, too much is at stake for the establishment.

    Hyphen-lady isn’t going to pull out! The GOP and DNC are owned by the same powers-that-be. Under no circumstances can voters be emboldened to vote for third parties. The purpose of her candidacy is a deliberate attempt to get Lampson the win.

  • Stephen VanDyke

    Devious: You’re right. They know if we get a toe-hold in Congress, one of the other two parties is going bye bye.

    We’re definitely past the point of chalking all this shit up to mere coincidence (times how many elections in how many states) and far into the realm of two-party collusion.

  • Sandra Kallander

    I believe in the spontaneous conspiracy theory. That’s where it looks like a conspiracy, but there’s no planning or collusion. Everybody does what’s best for them, or what they think they should do, but the system is set up in such a way it looks like a concerted effort.

    Like bureaucrats telling their bosses what they want to hear. Downplaying bad news. Or FEMA employees trying to control events that are too big for them. It’s organic.

    Libertarians seem particularly adept at seeing these patterns, probably the same reason they’re into electronics, math, economics, game theory, physics, etc., but I wouldn’t assume that there is an actual conspiracy plotting the whole thing.

    If somebody was actually expending effort to sabotage Smither, I’d be worried they were masquerading here, trying to divide us over the Fair Tax.

  • Stephen VanDyke

    If somebody was actually expending effort to sabotage Smither, I’d be worried they were masquerading here, trying to divide us over the Fair Tax.

    Sandra: You’re definitely one of the funnier commenters here :)

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    SMITHER can win!

    This district voted 64% for Bush in ’04. Ron Paul, Libertarian/ Republican Congressman is from the area.

    Lampson is a pro-union, big spending, Nancy Pelosi liberal who, on top of everything else, “carpetbagged” into the district from across the state.
    The district does NOT want Lampson but can’t decide which way to turn.
    The PRESS is ignoring Smither, yet he has TWICE the support of Sekula-Gibbs, R, write-in candidate.
    The district has electronic voting machines, so that hyphenated name must be “dialed” in one letter at a time on an alphabet wheel. NO ONE WILL DO IT !

    SMITHER needs $$$$$$$$$$$ and buzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    You can jack off for the next 4 weeks— or you can dance those fingers onto blogs, etc. and call in to radio shows, incl Neal Boortz, and Chris Baker and Michael Berry.

    http://www.smither4congress.com

    Check out his tragic story.
    He is a Phd electrical engr who owns his own small co.

    laughlinou@yahoo.com

    HELP HELP

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Lloyd- Is that your letter published in today’s DMN letters section?

    Kudos to you babe!

  • http://www.lpnm.org Joseph Knight

    The “fair” tax IS worse than what we have now!

    The FAIRTAX: A TROJAN HORSE FOR AMERICA?
    http://www.jpfo.org/fairtax.htm

    In 40 years as an activist, 20 years of it as a Libertarian activist, I have NEVER advocated imposing a tax on anybody. Now I’m asked to support an LP candidate who would impose one on ME just because he has a chance to win?

    http://www.lpnm.org/essays/MemberEssays-jknight2.html

    I think it would be a disaster for the LP’s first elected congressman to be a “fair” taxer. Hate to rain on the parade, really no masquerading here, just calling it as I see it.

  • IanC

    Joseph — respectfully (sic): Shut the fuck up about the FairTax hate already! We *KNOW* about your objections.

    Take it up with *SMITHER* once he is IN OFFICE. I *GUARANTEE* you that if enough people spend *ENOUGH* time getting him to listen once he’s in office, he’ll listen.

    That’s what public offices are designed to do, and he’s too much of a libertarian-Libertarian to not be honest about it.

  • disinter

    I really think Smither could win the election, but we won’t likely ever know. I think vote fraud WILL be resorted to if he does, too much is at stake for the establishment.

    We will know on election night. And this district doesn’t use electronic voting machines, so I don’t see it being rigged as easily.

  • http://freelancify.com Nigel Watt

    Lloyd- Is that your letter published in today’s DMN letters section?

    Defintiely a winner of a letter. I should get reading the DMN to see if I can get a few more letters published.

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    Yes, my letter in DMN, but I recommend more letters to Houston Chronicle, Galveston News, and other District 22 publications.

    NOW is the time for all good Libertarians to come to the aid of our countryman, a WINNER.

    By the way, Smither advocates reducing Federal spending by $1 yr-over-yr—– not radical, but it hasn’t happened in a century.

    SMITHER is a winner. Why the entire Libertarian-leaning portion of the NATION hasn’t thrown money and buzz behind the man is beyond me.

    The PERFECT STORM facts are these:

    1. NO Republican on the ballot in a VERY conservative Republican district (64% for Bush in ’04)
    2. NO incumbent (incumbents win 95%+ of the time in the House)
    3. Demo is a dream opponent— for us—- pro-union, big spending, liberal old time Nancy Pelosi Democrat who, on top of everything else, “carpetbagged” in from across the state.

    Democrat Lampson is beatable, though he’s sitting on a ton of special interest money.

    Smither is near-perfect.

  • Andy

    “Bob Smither is the best Libertarian candidate for Congress in the 35 year history of the Party.”

    I don’t consider him to be the best Libertarian candidate for Congress in the history of the Libertarian Party. However, he is in one of the most fortunate situations in which a Libertarian candidate for Congress has ever been.

  • Andy

    “I think it would be a disaster for the LP’s first elected congressman to be a “fair” taxer. Hate to rain on the parade, really no masquerading here, just calling it as I see it.”

    I agree. I would advise fellow Libertarians to avoid the “Fair Tax” scheme like the plague.

  • disinter

    I agree with IanC.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    yes, and probably half the party wont support him becuase he likes the Fairtax.

    Also, because he plans to caucus with the Republicans.

    Is the Fair Tax worse than we have now?

    Absolutely. It would be a huge disaster. I’ve posted the links before.

  • Leroy

    You anti-Fair Tax people crack me up. Talk about being obsessive compulsive! It’s like as soon as that issue is mentioned, everything else in the world becomes irrelevant. Same thing happens to many liberatarians when the “Federal Reserve System” is mentioned.

    Dammit people, enough! Smither is our man, despite his support for the Fair Tax!

  • IanC

    Joseph, Andy, paulie — howsabout you wait 30 days to talk about the FairTax? Just *thirty days*?

    I won’t ask y’all to donate money. But *FOR THE LOVE OF FREEDOM* stop discouraging *others* from doing so!!!!!!!!!

    Correct his misguidance once he’s in office. Think about it; even a FairTaxing libertarian whom is at least moderately decent on the poor-man spectrum of the libertarian axis (that is; social [not *civil*] liberties aside from drug-use), is a vast improvement over any Blue or Red Party Candidate.

    BOB SMITHER IS ******NOT***** A LONG-SHOT TO VICTORY.

    Don’t tilt the scale!

  • Brian

    anyone know a recent figure of how much Smither has raised?

  • Devious David

    Sandra, I like your spontaneous conspiracy theory and I agree, but there is also a higher, more concerted effort as well. The local D/R affiliates might for instance have someone, who of their own volition, deliberately screws something up. Meanwhile, Diebold stands by for a little extra umph. And in before it even got that far, their were judges, D/R leadership, media, laws and so forth – all with the same agenda.

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    Criticizing SMITHER on Fair Tax or any other single issue is absurd.

    Christ, the man will be only ONE of 435 Congressmen. There has never been a Libertarian creature called a “Congressman”. Don’t you think Libertarians should crawl before trying to walk or run the country.

    Here’s the ONLY important point about Smither:

    Imagine the political debate in the US between now and ’08 if there is ONE Libertarian in Congress, perhaps a Libertarian viewpoint expressed in the media, on the cable talk shows etc.

    Don’t you realize that 80%, maybe 90%, of the American people have NO idea what a “Libertarian” is?

    The Democrat in Dist 22 ran a poll posing Smither as the “Liberal” Party candidate, and most people never even noticed the difference.

    Folks, debate AFTER Nov. 7 all the issues.
    NOW is the time for action, for giving, for blogging, for calling radio stations——– for electing ONE Libertarian in the history of the WORLD.

    laughlinou@yahoo.com

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Don’t you think Libertarians should crawl before trying to walk or run the country.

    Precisely.

    Part of learning to crawl is learning to carry on vigorous intramural debate that, well, remains intramural. I’m sure very many Democrats feel the same way about Bob Casey , just substituting abortion restriction for Fair Tax. But you still see their blogs gloating about Casey beating Santorum. If they have to, they rationalize that at least Casey will vote for caucus leadership that will support their views.

    If they had mentality of many Libertarians, they’d be ranting about how there’s no way they can support an “anti-choice” candidate, etc. I’m sure there are Dems who feel that way, but for the most part they manage to set aside even deeply held differences when it comes time to beat the Republicans. Why can’t we do the same?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Lloyd, you made an error. You said that there’s never been a creature called a “Libertarian Congressman.”

    Actually, Ron Paul has never left the Libertarian Party. He is a Lifetime Member of the LP and has never rejected that. In fact, he proudly displays a gift the LP gave to him on his mantle over his fireplace at his Lake Jackson home; a large Statue of Liberty with an inscription thanking him for running for President.

    Ron is quite proud of his LP Membership.

    I suspect the minute Smither is elected him and Ron will be the best of friends and probably vote together 99.9% of the time.

    Additionally, I would expect certainly Jeff Flake, and Rohrabacher, and maybe Feeney of Florida to join them, as well.

    Sadly, Butch Otter is leaving the Congress to take over as Governor of Idaho.

    That’s why we desperately need Smither to replace him!

    We MUST maintain our cadre of 5 to 6 libertarians in Congress. Without Smither, we lose Otter and we’re down to 4.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Yes Andy, you are right. Bob is in a “fortunate” situation. But just imagine for a moment if the LP had put up a line-holder type candidate for that seat; someone who didn’t have plans to run a campaign, or some geeky guy with no social skills and no idea what to do for a political campaign.

    Fortunately Bob is well-known in Houston, he’s an attractive candidate, well-spoken, quite intelligent, has a Ph.D. and is an Engineer to boot.

    I’d call that the best Libertarian candidate ever.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Devious Dave, that is the absolute nuttiest thing I’ve ever heard. Hyphen lady was put in this race to keep Bob Smither out? Get real.

    You are obviously not from Texas, nor certainly the Houston area. You are ingorant to the dynamics of this race.

    Nobody knew Hyphen lady would be the GOP candidate. The odds on favorite was Dave Walters, Mayor of Sugarland.

    Plus, many Republicans have endorsed Bob, including Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas State Chairman, State Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson.

    While I’m not predicting that she will drop out, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if she just “suspended” her campaign in a week or two.

    Believe me, as a proud Republican I can tell you Republicans are very practical people re: politics. Once they see the writing on the wall, they will be inclined to back Bob, like they did with Ron Paul immediately after he won the GOP nomination.

  • Darcy Richardson

    QUOTE OF THE WEEK

    “Believe me, as a proud Republican I can tell you Republicans are very practical people…” — Eric Dondero

    Hell, you must be just blushing with pride these days. Not only is the war in Iraq going swimmingly well, but your leadership in the House really seems to have its act together. What didn’t they know and when didn’t they know it? They’re almost as impressive as that nefarious and deceitful duo in the White House.

    By the way, the Republicans in the 22nd CD will never support Bob Smither. If Republicans on Capitol Hill can’t even understand the implications in a 54-year-old congressman’s highly suggestive e-mails to an underage teenager, what makes you think they’ll be able to “see the writing on the wall,” in a race for one of their most coveted seats?

  • Devious David

    Dondero, you corroborate my point. Nobody knew Hyphen-lady would be the GOP candidate. That’s because the upper leadership came down to quash any possibility that Smither might get even an informal endorsement. That’s how D/R politics work. When the powers-that-be are threatened by the local affiliates of their engineered and controlled party(s), it’s time to step on their necks with the national leadership. That’s why Hyphen got installed by DeLay. I absolutely do not see her suspending her campaign. You are unrealistic. I won’t lose any sleep worrying about you showing me up on this. I pray you are right though!

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    I found a little clever election tool on the website for a certain big city US paper. It let you click on the different districts and would give you pics of a couple of candidates. Unfortunately for TX-22, it presented Democrat Nick Lampson and a write in candidate. I wrote them an e-mail:

    …I certainly hope this is just an oversight and not a systematic effort to exclude Libertarians from your political coverage. Since Bob Smither is presently polling second in TX-22, I see no good faith reason to omit him or to give a photo of a write-in candidate in preference to Smither.

    Either you made a mistake in omitting [Smither], which I request you correct, or you’re systematically anti-Libertarian for no objective reason. If it’s the former case, please correct this oversight so that I can resume using your site and even pass the link on to friends.

    I don’t expect to hear anything other than boilerplate back.

  • disinter

    EOC – what is the website?

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    http://www.nytimes.com/ref/washington/2006ELECTIONGUIDE.html?currentDataSet=houANALYSIS

    My email to their feedback@nytimes.com address (listed on the site) bounced, however!

    Also, I just realized that this article cites a straw poll of 100 respondents. Do we have any real polling data on TX-22, or are we just all excited because we happened to get 25 Smither voters in a sample?

  • disinter
  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    I tried politics@nytimes.com, another address listed in a different section. Also I changed my wording to reflect that I’m not really sure how Smither is polling (no polls listed in their applet).

    In fairness, they omitted the Connecticut for Lieberman candidate for CT-Sen who’s polling first! So they seem to be systematically favoring Republicrats rather than systematically shafting Libertarians. Still, they need to fix the applet for cases where an non-D/R is running first or second (or better still, accomodate more than two candidates’ pics and bios).

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Eh, never mind, I’m blind, their applet has a pic of Lieberman. They’re just dishonest.

  • disinter

    Hmm… they actually list James Werner though.

  • Darcy Richardson

    They also included Bernie Sanders for the U.S. Senate in Vermont, but seem to have excluded almost every other independent and third-party candidate, including U.S. Senate hopeful Bruce Guthrie in Washington, one of the most compelling and attractive anti-war candidates in the country. It’s amazing that the New York Times, which for years prided itself on publishing “All the news that’s fit to print,” would have such an exclusionary policy regarding outside challengers to the corrupt two-party system, especially given the fact that it never lacked space for any of Judith Miller’s extraordinarily egregious and erroneous reporting on Saddam Hussein’s “weapons of mass destruction” in the build up to the illegal and immoral war in Iraq — bogus information that she was spoon-fed by the White House.

  • Michael in California

    Brian asked:

    anyone know a recent figure of how much Smither has raised?

    In late August the Reason article on Smither indicated that he had about $10,000 to spend.

    I believe I will be sending Mr. Smither some of my money. This is too good a chance to pass up.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    You all want to be outraged by something?

    Click onto http://www.realclearpolitics.com. It’s the bellweather for American politics.

    Well, click on to Texas CD 22, and all you see is Sekula-Gibbs and Nick Lampson. Not even a mention of Bob Smither anywheres!! I tried to find an email address on the site to complain, but couldn’t.

    We all need to complain loudly to RCP. How outrageous, Sekula-Gibbs is not even on the ballot, yet they List her.

    Democrats, wanting to drown out Smither, control RCP no doubt.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Darcy, why are you surprised? Libertarians make Republicans look like moderate middle-of-the-roaders. Of course, the left wing press is going to drown us out. If they start covering Libertarians who want to “slash and burn government,” well the Republicans who just want to “hold back the growth of government” will all of a sudden look reasonable.

    Last thing they want is to lose their mantra, “Republicans are evil radical government haters who want to abolish welfare and take away old grandma’s social security check…”

    That’s what we Libertarians essentially want to do. They can’t blame the Republicans for this, if we are suddenly brought into the picture.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Good theory Devious Dave. One problem though. The establishment choice was Dave Walters, Mayor of Sugarland. All the Party faithful were wanting Walters to be the standard-bearer. Sekula-Gibbs was sort of an accidental last minute choice.

    You are not a Republican, so I don’t down you for not understanding how intra-Republican politics work. I am a Republican. I’ve been to numerous local GOP meetings. Believe me, the locals get quite testy of any outsiders from Austin or even Washington, DC meddling with their decisions.

    And it’s not nearly as a contrived process as you think. Local GOP politics is quite messy. Things happen more often than not accidentally and with last minute compromises, not by design.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Devious Dave, a quick addendum.

    If anything Walters was the establishment choice. He would have been much favored by the folks in DC. (My opinion, he would have been a much stronger candidate for the GOP for reason of his easy to spell name alone. And Sugarland is a very big city in the District.)

    Sekula-Gibbs was the choice of local Houston-crats. I think you have this thing backwards.

    If Walters had been chosen, I’d agree with you, something suspicious at hand. But instead, they went with the local favorite at the last minute. My guess, thumbing their noses at the “DC or Austin Big Shots.”

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    Two points:

    1. Neither Ron Paul nor anyone else has ever been ELECTED as a Libertarian candidate. I don’t care what mementos Paul has over his fireplace. The simple fact is that SMITHER will be the first Libertarian CANDIDATE ever elected. There are NOT 4-5-6 Congressmen elected as Libertarians. There are NONE.

    And there will remain NONE unless we all unite and ship $$$$$$$ and blog buzzzzzzzzzz Smither’s way over the next 31 days.

    2. Of course, we all disagree with 1 or 2 of any candidate’s positions, but it is OCTOBER– the month of ACTION—- not debate.
    Let’s help Smither smash the opposition to Smither-eens!

    We don’t have the press.
    We don’t have much $$$$$$.

    Rather than blogging each other day and night, we should e-mail everyone we know with Smither’s site and hit the
    Republican and other conservative, fiscally responsible blogs for Smither.

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    E-mail the NY Times that they’re NOT even including Smither in their political roundup:

    web-editor@nytimes.com

    Write the Times about Smither as a winning candidate:

    staff@nytimes.com

    HELP

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    So Lloyd, do you wish to go on record publicly in saying that “Ron Paul is not a Libertarian”?

    Have the courage of your convictions.

  • disinter

    #53:

    Realclearpolitics contact info:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/contact.html

  • Michael in California

    Eric Dondero said:

    Well, click on to Texas CD 22 [on realclearpolitics.com], and all you see is Sekula-Gibbs and Nick Lampson. Not even a mention of Bob Smither anywheres!! I tried to find an email address on the site to complain, but couldn’t.

    There’s a Contactlink at the bottom every RCP page. It is hard to find because of the way they format their pages: it’s in a narrow strip that you have to scroll all the way to the bottom to see.

    Emails wouldn’t hurt, I guess.

    More fun (and more effective) would be this guerrilla tactic:

    Someone writes a tart article that calls out the mainstream media’s resistance to covering viable Libertarian candidates, and gives the NYT and RCP sites’ omission of Smither as examples.

    Then one of us submits the article to RCP’s “Reader Articles”, a bunch of us vote for it so it shows up prominently, and voila, we’ve used their own site to expose them!

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    Eric– Ron Paul did NOT RUN and was NOT elected as a Libertarian. He was ELECTED as a Republican.

  • Brian

    Michael, on the LP’s candidate tracker they say Smither has raised $15,000, so it’s at least that much. But the 15K figure has been up for a while.

  • Timothy West

    nytimes is also owned by BELO.

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    I believe Smither has over $60k+, and that was before National LP started throwint their weight behind fund-raising this week.
    He needs at least $300k to $400k to get his message out.

    HELP SMITHER.

    http://www.smither4congress.com

  • Michael in California

    nytimes is also owned by BELO.

    Really? If you mean that in the financial sense, I don’t think so. Apparently neither does Belo. Nor could I find Belo mentioned among holders of NYT stock on MSN Money (T. Rowe Price is the biggest holder of NYT at 14.5% of shares outstanding).

    Of course, if you mean “owns” as in “kicks the sh*t out of,” well… never mind. (I don’t read the Dallas Morning News, so I wouldn’t know.)

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    That’s not what I asked Lloyd. Quite deflecting.

    Again, do you wish to go on record as saying that “Ron Paul is not a Libertarian?”

    Don’t be a pussy. If that’s what you believe, just say it.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Lloyd, don’t you get it. THE LIBERAL MEDIA WILL NEVER COVER LIBERTARIANS CAUSE IT MAKES REPUBLICANS LOOK LIKE MODERATES!!!

    They want to be able to portray meanie old Republicans as government slashers who want to abolish public education, fire all government workers a day before Christmas, and take Grannie’s Social Security check away from her.

    If there’s actual people in the mix who advocate this – Libertarians – then they can’t fool the public about Republicans being extremists.

  • http://360.yahoo.com/pong_god Robert Mayer

    First of all, the Mayor of Sugar Land is David Wallace. Secondly, I don’t see Hyphen Lady dropping out so easily after having just raised a quick $200K with the help of Cheney and DeLay. If the Republicans were as practical as Dondero implies, they would have supported Smither from the outset rather than embarking on a futile attempt to win with a write-in candidate, particularly one with such a difficult name to spell.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Good point Robert, but in fairness, things happened very quickly after the Supreme Court ruling knocking DeLay off the ballot. There wasn’t enough time for the Smither campaign to really mount a “Republican outreach” effort.

    You’re right. Sorry for the error on the name David Wallace.

    And $200K is a drop in the bucket for a Congressional race. Ron Paul regularly raises and spends about $1 million.

    Actually, quite the opposite, the fact that Hyphen lady only has $200K is an indication that the GOP isn’t really serious about her race.

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    Agree. Republicans have given up on Dist 22.

    But, can we get hyphen lady to give up?

    If she threw her weight behind Smither, he’d clinch the deal. If just some Republican officials followed Bob Barr, he’d win.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    This is the Letter to the Editor I just sent to the folks at the liberal-biased RealClearPolitics.com:

    John,

    Could you kindly tell me why it is you are completely ignoring Libertarian Bob Smither for the Tom DeLay seat in TX CD-22? You don’t even list him when one clicks on TX CD-22 headlined in this morning’s RCP. The latest poll has Lampson at 34%, Smither at 25% and Sekula-Gibbs at 11%. Why would you list the 3rd-party candidate in the race write-in Sekula-Gibbs and not Smither?

    I live next door to this District. I’m a diehard Republican. All my friends who live there are supporting Bob Smither, and all are Republicans. Latest rumors are that Sekula-Gibbs is going to drop out of the race and Republicans will back Smither.

    It will look kind of strange for Real Clear Politics when Smither wins, and you didn’t even list him?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Lloyd, there may be a crack in the dam.

    Look at http://www.gogprogress.com this morning. It’s a very well respected mainstream Republican site, and they are basically calling for Hyphen lady to step aside.

  • http://libertariansmither.blogspot.com Lloyd Laughlin

    Eric, I couldn’t pull up the site.

    We all need to contact the newspapers and radio stations in Houston/ Sugarland/ Galveston area as Republicans and ask hyphen lady to step aside so Smither can win for conservatives.

  • disinter

    Eric,

    Is that the correct link? I can’t get to it either…

  • disinter

    Ahh, this is it:

    http://www.gopprogress.com/

  • Michelle Shinghal

    Gotta love Eric’s comment on the site he linked:

    by ericdondero on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 03:52:32 PM EST

    It just makes so much more sense for the GOP to consider the Bob Smither alternative.
    The GOP need to reach out to Libertarian voters, and this is the perfect opportunity to let them know we’re serious about winning their votes.

    We need this guy gone, gone, gone.

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    As long as he’s honest about his motives I don’t see the problem. In Dondero’s defense (gulp!), it’s perfectly consistent that he could believe in libertarian values, could be an obvious Republican, and could want the GOP to move toward libertarianism to coopt the LP. If I thought the idea of the GOP returning to its roots were viable, I’d even suggest this might be an acceptable outcome.

    Dondero’s posts are infuriating, and to the extent that he’s dishonest about his motives (I’m neither saying he is or isn’t) they’re worthy of condemnation. But just being a libertarian Republican who interacts with Libertarians, even to try to win them over to the GOP, isn’t a sin. As long as the Republicans embrace Christianism as their core strategy Dondero’s not likely to be successful, but not for lack of trying.

  • TerryP

    The problem is the republican leadership would much rather have a democrat win than a libertarian. If a libertarian wins, it will legitamize the LP. Once the libertarians become a viable option the R’s and D’s are going to have a hard time holding on to their authoritarian coalition. They would rather put up with a D for two years while they still have a R for a president and in two years run someone with a R behind his name capable of beating the D. They will have lost very little by going this route, but by backing the libertarian they could lose quite a bit in the long run if they want to continue their authoritarian bias. Once the LP is legitimized with a win the R party will have no choice but to move towards freedom on the issues if they want to continue to win races. I don’t believe the republican leadership wants to do that. They are very comfortable as being right-handed authoritarians within a two-party system. They don’t want a viable third party, period.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Terry, if what you say is correct, that Republicans would much rather have a Democrat win than a Libertarian, than why is it, that all the Bigtime Texas Republicans all rallied around Ron Paul immediately after he won his primary.

    First Kay called, than Carole, than Tom DeLay, than Dick Army, than even Bush and Rove. Kay, Carol, Tom and Dick even came down to the District to campaign for Ron.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Equal Opportunity Cynic, thanks for the kind words.

    My hoped for best case scenario for the future of the libertarian political movement?

    A very strong libertarian wing of the Republican Party led by the RLC.

    A Libertarian Party that’s still around, and can be used as a ballot access vehicle to clobber the Republicans when they stray to far away from libertarian principles.

    Also, with fusion candidacies: Republican and Libertarian.

    Essentially, the LP becomes like the Conservative Party of New York State.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Michelle, you obviously don’t get the method to my madness. That comment on that site was quite strategic. I’ll let you simmer on it for a bit. And then come back to me in a day or two, and let me know if you’ve figured it out.

  • Andy

    “Yes Andy, you are right. Bob is in a ‘fortunate’ situation. But just imagine for a moment if the LP had put up a line-holder type candidate for that seat; someone who didn’t have plans to run a campaign, or some geeky guy with no social skills and no idea what to do for a political campaign.

    Fortunately Bob is well-known in Houston, he’s an attractive candidate, well-spoken, quite intelligent, has a Ph.D. and is an Engineer to boot.

    I’d call that the best Libertarian candidate ever.”

    Bob Smithers may have a lot of things going for him, but his support of the “Fair Tax” disqualifies him from being in the running for the Best Libertarian for Congress ever. There have been other attractive LP candidates for Congress who just weren’t lucky enough to be in a sitaution like this. I wish that this situation in Texas would have happened in Badnarik’s district.

  • Andy

    “Lloyd, don’t you get it. THE LIBERAL MEDIA WILL NEVER COVER LIBERTARIANS CAUSE IT MAKES REPUBLICANS LOOK LIKE MODERATES!!!”

    The media doesn’t give fair time to Libertarians because the media is controlled by people who’ve got a vested interest in big government. The media isn’t just “liberal,” look at FOX News.

  • Andy

    “If I thought the idea of the GOP returning to its roots were viable, I’d even suggest this might be an acceptable outcome.”

    The GOP’s roots are for big government. Study history.

  • Andy

    Equal Opportunity Cynic, thanks for the kind words.

    My hoped for best case scenario for the future of the libertarian political movement?

    A very strong libertarian wing of the Republican Party led by the RLC.

    A Libertarian Party that’s still around, and can be used as a ballot access vehicle to clobber the Republicans when they stray to far away from libertarian principles.

    Also, with fusion candidacies: Republican and Libertarian.

    Essentially, the LP becomes like the Conservative Party of New York State.”

    The problem with this is that it will turn away a lot of potential libertarian converts who are currently on the left or in the center or who are non-voters. For ultimate success the Libertarian Party needs to build its own label that is outside of the “left vs. right” paradigm.

  • paulie

    The problem with this is that it will turn away a lot of potential libertarian converts who are currently on the left or in the center or who are non-voters. For ultimate success the Libertarian Party needs to build its own label that is outside of the “left vs. right” paradigm.

    By far, the anti-authoritarian vote self-identifies with the left, especially right now. The conservatives who would consider an LP vote have been recruited heavily for decades; the Democrat and Green voters and non-voters who would consider it have barely been touched.

    Every factor which makes someone less likely to switch parties also makes someone more likely to be a Republican/conservative.

    Also, right now the conservative/Republicans are in an especially fascist mood, making them particularly ill-suited for Libertarian recruitment. The fact that the Lp continues to focus on the right in this climate is a huge strategic blunder which is causing the party to shrink.

  • paulie

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/red-state-fascism.html

    And as far as IanC’s comment….

    I don’t necessarily think one Libertarian out of 435 congressmen is that earth-shattering. Ron Paul is already one in all but name, and one vote does not a majority make.
    Even if Dondero were right that there are five or six (he isn’t, of course) that would still have little impact.

    What concerns me is that he promises to caucus with the Republicans. Since the balance of control in the House might be very close, it is entirely conceivable that Smither could in fact make good on his promise of keeping Pelosi from becoming speaker. Yet Pelosi becoming speaker is *exactly* what would advance the cause of liberty in the real world of today. It would bring all the benefits of divided government, investigations, and perhaps even impeachment. This would do more for liberty than one sole Libertarian congressman.

  • paulie

    Of course, it may have some institutional benefits to have a big L in Congress, even just one, because it provides all sorts of opportunities to get the name out there.

    But then the question is, if the point of having a big L in Congress is to get our name and agenda out there, what sort of image would that person convey?

    If the image is one that paints us as conservatives, “Fair taxers,” and the like, I would say that this would be worse than not having an elected Libertarian.

    It would greatly damage our potential to reach out to the left, where, by far, the greater opportunity for outreach now exists.

    Also, I believe the “fair tax” would in fact suit the hidden agenda of the corporate parties. I can see it catching fire. Having a Libertarian to blame for this would suit their purposes too, and cancel our potential to ever be a real opposition.

    Clearly, a movement of individualists is likely to act individualistically, even during campaign season. Why should this…

  • paulie

    …(89)….be surprising?

    Also, why is it necessarily a bad thing?

    Yes, collectivists will mute their disagreements for the greater good. No wonder, since that is what they want us all to do after they get the power they seek.

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    If the image is one that paints us as conservatives, “Fair taxers,” and the like, I would say that this would be worse than not having an elected Libertarian.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. The credibility conferred on the party for getting someone, anyone, to Congress would more than make up for any divergences on a few issues.

    Basically the only way I’d reach the point where I’d agree with the excerpted statement is if the nominal Libertarian were actually worse than the status quo — handing out more pork, taking more bribes, leading us quicker into fascism. In that regard maybe it’s conceivable a nominal L could be so bad as to not be worth electing, but it sure isn’t because of the Fair Tax.

  • paulie

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. The credibility conferred on the party for getting someone, anyone, to Congress would more than make up for any divergences on a few issues.

    Yes, we’ll have to disagree – I think it’s important as to what TYPE of candidate we elect. A bad one would be worse than nothing. How would Congressman Dondero grab you? (I realize, of course, that we don’t have to worry about that, since Eric is a Republican. But what if he decided to run as LP and got lucky by a fluke?)

    leading us quicker into fascism. In that regard maybe it’s conceivable a nominal L could be so bad as to not be worth electing, but it sure isn’t because of the Fair Tax.

    But that’s exactly what I belive would happen. Right now, the feds just don’t rake in enough money to invade all the countries they want to conquer and enact a domestic police state as wide-ranging as the one they envision. The only way to increase revenues enough is to add a national sales tax.

  • Andy

    “Yet Pelosi becoming speaker is *exactly* what would advance the cause of liberty in the real world of today. It would bring all the benefits of divided government, investigations, and perhaps even impeachment.”

    I agree, however, if we end up with a Democrat as President in 2008 this could turn into a bad thing at that point.

  • Andy

    “Also, I believe the “fair tax” would in fact suit the hidden agenda of the corporate parties. I can see it catching fire. Having a Libertarian to blame for this would suit their purposes too, and cancel our potential to ever be a real opposition.”

    If the “Fair Tax” passes with the “libertarian” label attached to it I believe that it would be disaterous for the libertarian movement, and in particular for the Libertarian Party.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    A letter I whipped out this morning:

    Real Clear Politics,

    I’m confused. You argue this morning that Joe Negron has no shot of winning in Florida CD-16; that voters just won’t walk in the voting booth and pull the lever for a replacement candidate.

    Yet, you don’t even list Libertarian Bob Smither on your site for TX CD-22, while listing GOP write-in Shelly Sekula-Gibbs.

    Bob Smither WILL BE ON THE BALLOT next to Democrat Nick Lampson. Sekula-Gibbs will not be on the ballot.

    Why the double standard? Why do you think Florida voters are too dumb to pull the Foley lever to maintain GOP control, yet think Texas voters are smart enough to write in a Hyphen lady for the GOP, and won’t cast their vote for a Libertarian who is currently polling 25% and has the endorsement of key Republicans?

    Eric Dondero, Former Senior Aide
    US Congressman Ron Paul (TX CD-14)

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Paulie, for the record, if I was in Congress my voting record would be 98% identical to Ron Paul. The only issue I’ve ever disagreed with him on is the War in Iraq (quite strongly). Also, abortion, Ron is Pro-Life and I’m very Pro-Choice. But that doesn’t come up much.

    Ron is getting up there in age. I suspect this might be his last term. We need to find a libertarian replacement for him.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Pelois “would advance the cause of freedom” huh Paulie? She has vowed that her very first act would be to move to repeal the Bush tax cuts. How does that advance freedom?

    Paulie-speak:

    Repeal of Tax Cuts = Libertarian advances for Freedom

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Paulie,

    Did you see the latest edition of REASON Magazine? If not, you ought to check it out.

    I assume you regard REASON as “principled libertarian” correct? (If not, than disregard my comments here).

    REASON did a 6 page spread on US Congressman Butch Otter. They praised him repeatedly, and called him a libertarian, and pointed out all his libertarian stances in Congress and in prior years as a Lt. Gov. and legislator.

    Strangely, what REASON didn’t say was that while Lt. Gov. Otter attended Libertarian Party state conventions, and helped the LP with a bad ballot access situation in Idaho.

    Now, you doubt there are “4 or 5 libertarian Congressman” besides Ron Paul.

    Is your definition so strict and so exclusionary that you don’t even count Butch Otter of Idaho?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Paulie doubts that there are “4 or 5 libertarian Congressmen” besides Ron Paul.

    I wonder if that includes Jeff Flake of Arizona? Flake was the former President of the very libertarian Goldwater Institute in Phoenix. Flake has racked up the MOST libertarian voting record in Congress 3 years in a row, even beating Ron Paul, this year by 8 points.

    Even the vast majority of Libertarian Party members familiar with Flake concede he’s “quite libertarian.”

    Yet Paulie refuses to acknowledge this, all because Flake was never an official member of the Libertarian Party.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Who is Dana Rohrabacher?

    Most concede he IS the very Founder of the Modern Libertarian Movement. Dana was Chairman of the Libertarian Caucus of Young Americans for Freedom during the critical years of 1967 to 69. Dana was “hanging around” at the birth of the Libertarian Party. Dana has consistently supported legalizing marijuana and abolishing the Selective Service during his decade in Congress. In fact, he was the very first Congressman to sponsor the Libertarian Party bill in 1994 to abolish SS. Dana also has numerous Libertarian staffers. For years he had his best friend longtime Libertarian stalwart Don Ernsberger as one of his top Congressional Advisors.

    Dana scored Number 3 in Congress as “most libertarian” in the Liberty Index this year, only 2 points behind Ron Paul.

    Yet Paulie doesn’t believe Dana is a “real libertarian.”

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Breaking news on Smither Campaign this morning out of the Washington Post.

    Full story at http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

  • http://www.lpnm.org Joseph Knight

    Mixing the “fair” tax with Libertarian Party politics is like mixing peanut butter with shit: it ruins the peanut butter but does nothing to improve the shit.

  • http://www.lpnm.org Joseph Knight

    Vance vs. Boortz on Fraudulent Tax

    http://mises.org/story/2327

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    Check out the story at #101.

    SMITHER CAN WIN !

    You can argue all day and night as to who is a true blue Libertarian.

    Bottom Line: NO “LIBERTARIAN PARTY” CANDIDATE HAS EVER BEEN ELECTED TO CONGRESS.
    Sure, Ron Paul is a Libertarian.
    Sure, others are highly rated by Libertarians.

    BUT, when you look up the roll of Congress, or when cable TV introduces a Congressman, none.

    Withn 40 days BOB SMITHER will be interviewed by every cable TV network and 1/4 the mainstream networks as the Libertarian Congressman from Texas who took Tom DeLay’s seat—- if he wins of course.

    He needs $$$$$$$$$ and buzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Please hit every blog you can think of.
    Call the Houston radio shows, national radio shows.

    smither4congress.com

    Lloyd Laughlin
    laughlinou@yahoo.com

  • http://libertyforamerica.net/blog/24 Equal Opportunity Cynic

    Nonono, Lloyd, you don’t get it. We’ve gotta make sure everyone in the LP conforms to a narrow set of views, and then, once we reach ideological purity, then we can actually start trying to get people elected. It’s a two-step process, see. Can’t put the cart before the horse.

    Flame bait? Straw man argument? Damn straight, and a fun one at that!

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Pelosi “would advance the cause of freedom” huh Paulie?

    Yes, divided government is better. They tend to cause less mischief when Congress and the presidency are of different branches of the Majoritarian Party.

    Also, I believe there will be a lot of necessary investigations of the Bush gang with Democrats in charge of Congress, and, I hope, an impeachment of war criminal Bush and his whole crime family.

    Yes, this would advance the cause of freedom much more than Bush’s smoke-and-mirrors “tax cuts.”

    Reason has some good articles, but no, they are not always libertarian. They cozy up too much to warmongers, Cato, etc.

    Otter and Flake have numerous votes that are anti-liberty. This is not shown by the “Liberty Index” but the problem is with the index. Same with Rohrabacher who was a libertarian in the 60s and 70s, but is now a standard conservative.

    And, EOC, who said all that?

    I’ve endorsed the cross-endorsement of Zeese and Murphy.

  • Seth

    Mr. Laughlin, please refrain from posting your messages all over HoT, spamming every thread. Your ‘support’ has already been the subject of unwelcome controversy. Help like that, we don’t need.

    http://www.fortbendnow.com/news/2024/overenthusiastic-smither-fan-sends-unauthorized-press-releases-in-campaigns-name

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli
  • Andy

    “The only issue I’ve ever disagreed with him on is the War in Iraq (quite strongly). Also, abortion, Ron is Pro-Life and I’m very Pro-Choice.”

    Support for the war in Iraq is very anti-libertarian. I don’t consider abortion to be a definitional libertarian postion since one can hold libertarian views on both sides of that one.

  • Andy

    “Withn 40 days BOB SMITHER will be interviewed by every cable TV network and 1/4 the mainstream networks as the Libertarian Congressman from Texas who took Tom DeLay’s seat””- if he wins of course.”

    If Smithers wins I hope that he drops his silly endorsement of the “Fair Tax.” All Libertarians who realize that the “Fair Tax” is a scam should bombard him with arguements against it.

    If Smithers does the right thing than I wish him the best of luck.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Wrong Andy. Dead Wrong!! Opposition to the War in Iraq is anti-libertarian and a complete and utter aberration of libertarian views!!!

    How do libertarian movement Godfathers Dana Rohrabacher and PJ O’Rourke feel about the War?

    Similarly, if you oppose the War you are essentially saying “I support Islamo-Fascism… I think it’s fine that Radical Islamic cabbies in the Minneapolis Airport won’t give me a ride home because my girlfriend is not clothed properly, and cause we might have had a few beers at the Airport bar.”

    You’re saying essentially, “I agree that topless sunbathing should be banned.”

    You’re saying, “Yeah, sure outlaw marijuana in Amsterdam, and Muslim Youth, go ahead and throw stones at my Gay friend who is traveling with my girlfriend and I here in Europe.”

    You’re saying, “Hey, I don’t mind if some Muslim guy shoots up a Jewish Community Center in Seattle, drives his SUV into a crowd of students at UNC, or murders 14 at MD and VA Gas Stations.”

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Geez Andy, that makes a lot of sense. Bother a hardcore Campaigner like Bob Smither and his Campaign Workers with on-line blogosphere issue crap in the midst of precinct walking and sign waving.

    Gotta hand it to the Blogosphere Arm-Chair Libertarians. They think the world revolves around them.

    Hey Andy, how ’bout just jumping in your car, filling up your tank, and driving on down to Houston to walk some precincts for Bob?

    Stop with all the crap about “Oh, golly gee, Bob is a supporter of the Fair Tax.” Pick up some brochures and walk a damned precinct for the man, or get your ass out on a street corner and wave a sign.

  • Lloyd Laughlin

    I agree, Eric.

    OCTOBER is for ACTION.

    We can debate again AFTER the election.

    http://www.smither4congress.com

  • Andy

    “Wrong Andy. Dead Wrong!! Opposition to the War in Iraq is anti-libertarian and a complete and utter aberration of libertarian views!!!

    How do libertarian movement Godfathers Dana Rohrabacher and PJ O’Rourke feel about the War?”

    PJ O’Rourke is NOT a real libertarian. In fact, PJ O’Rourke is a member of the Council On Foreign Realtions, aka the CFR (www.CFR.org). The CFR is a New World Order organization. They are for global government. You come on here waving around a freakin’ CFR member as a libertarian. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

    War is the health of the state. Your support of the war indicates that you support STEALING money from your fellow Americans (through taxes) to pay for a war against a country that did not attack us and that many Americans do not even support. Why should I be forced to pay for a war that I oppose?

    And if you want to talk about being pro-Saddam, look no further than our own government because our government supported Saddam for years.

  • Andy

    “Geez Andy, that makes a lot of sense. Bother a hardcore Campaigner like Bob Smither and his Campaign Workers with on-line blogosphere issue crap in the midst of precinct walking and sign waving.

    Gotta hand it to the Blogosphere Arm-Chair Libertarians.”

    I am FAR from being an arm-chair Libertarian. Anyone who knows me can attest to this.

    I don’t consider calling Smithers to task for his support of the “Fair Tax” to be bothering him with some trivial issue. I believe that the “Fair Tax” is a SCAM and is a destructive issue for the libertarian movement to get behind. If Smithers is a decent man he should be open to debate on the subject.

    I’m not an “all or nothing” or “throw the baby out with the bathwater” type of person in that I can still support people that I’m not in 100% agreement with, however, I just think that the “Fair Tax” is a really toxic issue. It’s a Trojan Horse.

  • Andy

    “Similarly, if you oppose the War you are essentially saying “I support Islamo-Fascism”¦”

    If you support the war you are saying that you support the New World Order and Neo-Con fascism.

    NEO-CONNED!
    http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

  • Andy

    “I think it’s fine that Radical Islamic cabbies in the Minneapolis Airport won’t give me a ride home because my girlfriend is not clothed properly, and cause we might have had a few beers at the Airport bar.”

    So you think that cabbies should be forced to give you a ride? Shouldn’t cabbies be able to chose who they want to pick up?

    “You’re saying essentially, ‘I agree that topless sunbathing should be banned.'”

    So murdering Iraqis saves topless sunbathers. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense…NOT!

    “You’re saying, ‘Yeah, sure outlaw marijuana in Amsterdam,'”

    Oh no, the Muslims might come over here and outlaw marijauna! Wait a minute, isn’t marijauna already outlawed in this country?

  • Andy

    “and Muslim Youth, go ahead and throw stones at my Gay friend who is traveling with my girlfriend and I here in Europe.”

    As opposed to the religous zealots in this country who pass laws against gay marriage and sodomy and who want to put gays in concentration camps.

    “You’re saying, ‘Hey, I don’t mind if some Muslim guy shoots up a Jewish Community Center in Seattle, drives his SUV into a crowd of students at UNC, or murders 14 at MD and VA Gas Stations.'”

    You’re saying, “Hey, I don’t mind if some American guys drop bombs on Iraqis, or shoot up Iraqi neighborhoods in Bagdad, or poison the air in Iraq with depleted uranium.”

    Using your logic some other country should invade the USA in the same way that the USA invaded Iraq.

  • Andy

    Here is a list of some well known CFR members. Scroll down for globalist propaganda agent PJ O’Rourke.

    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:-HPRgFsXeVYJ:www.nndb.com/org/505/000042379/+pj+o-rourke+cfr&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    I am FAR from being an arm-chair Libertarian. Anyone who knows me can attest to this.

    True.

    BTW…AWC reports

    A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.

    The estimate, produced by interviewing residents during a random sampling of households throughout the country, is far higher than ones produced by other groups, including Iraq’s government.

    It is more than 20 times the estimate of 30,000 civilian deaths that President Bush gave in a speech in December. It is more than 10 times the estimate of roughly 50,000 civilian deaths made by the British-based Iraq Body Count research group.

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    The surveyors said they found a steady increase in mortality since the invasion, with a steeper rise in the last year that appears to reflect a worsening of violence as reported by the U.S. military, the news media and civilian groups. In the year ending in June, the team calculated Iraq’s mortality rate to be roughly four times what it was the year before the war.

    Of the total 655,000 estimated “excess deaths,” 601,000 resulted from violence and the rest from disease and other causes, according to the study. This is about 500 unexpected violent deaths per day throughout the country. ”¦

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    If Smithers wins I hope that he drops his silly endorsement of the “Fair Tax.” All Libertarians who realize that the “Fair Tax” is a scam should bombard him with arguements against it.

    It’s actually the FraudTax

    http://www.mises.org/story/1814

  • Andy

    The CFR and the New World Order
    http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Council_Foreign_Relations.htm

    Exert:

    “If one group is effectively in control of national governments and multinational corporations; promotes world government through control of media, foundation grants, and education; and controls and guides the issues of the day; then they control most options available. The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), and the financial powers behind it, have done all these things, and promote the “New World Order”, as they have for over seventy years.

    The CFR is the promotional arm of the Ruling Elite in the United States of America. Most influential politicians, academics and media personalities are members, and it uses its influence to infiltrate the New World Order into American life. Its’ “experts” write scholarly pieces to be used in decision making, the academics expound on the wisdom of a united world, and the media members disseminate the message.”

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli
  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Ahh, and that’s where you are wrong Andy. You just fell into my trap.

    I am a big supporter of a yearly tax write off for all those Americans who do not wish to support the War on Islamo-Fascism. Opt out! Allow those of us who understand the threat to pick up the burden.

    Kind of like the 1% of Americans, like me, who served their country in the Military. All the woosies who didn’t serve deserve far less respect than our Veterans. The same will go if we institute the Tax Write-off system for the War. Don’t contribute, that’s fine. No problem. But I ought to have the right to diss you in public as a non-contributor and coward.

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Hey Andy, you say you’re not an “armchair Libertarian.”

    Really? Then how come you weren’t at the Macomb County Libertarian Party meeting last night?

    No excuses, unless you live up in the UP.

  • Andy

    “I am a big supporter of a yearly tax write off for all those Americans who do not wish to support the War on Islamo-Fascism. Opt out! Allow those of us who understand the threat to pick up the burden.”

    I’m glad to see this. Of course if something like this were to pass there wouldn’t be enough money to fund the war, at least not on the current scale.

    “Kind of like the 1% of Americans, like me, who served their country in the Military. All the woosies who didn’t serve deserve far less respect than our Veterans. The same will go if we institute the Tax Write-off system for the War. Don’t contribute, that’s fine. No problem. But I ought to have the right to diss you in public as a non-contributor and coward.”

    Did you really serve the USA, or did you serve the New World Order? There’s a BIG difference.

    You say that people who don’t serve in the military are “woosies.” I’d say that that is an absurd statement. People don’t serve in the military for a variety of

  • Andy

    reasons. Assuming that everyone who was never in the military due to cowardice is making a statement with no evidence to back it up. I’d say that the real COWARDS are the people who send others to fight but who are or were unwilling to fight themselves, people like George W. Bush (his National Gaurd service was a joke), Cheney, etc…

    Knowing what I know about our government there is no way in hell that I’d join the military. The only war that I’d want to fight it would be a revolution against our own corrupt government.

  • Andy

    “Hey Andy, you say you’re not an “armchair Libertarian.”

    Really? Then how come you weren’t at the Macomb County Libertarian Party meeting last night?

    No excuses, unless you live up in the UP.”

    I don’t even know where Macomb County is, and since I asssume that you are talking about Michigan, that is one of the few states that I’ve never visited.

  • Andy

    “Ahh, and that’s where you are wrong Andy. You just fell into my trap.”

    As you fail to address the fact that PJ O’Rourke is a member of the Council On Foreign Relations which is a group that advocates one world government. If you want to talk about terrorists and groups that are a threat to American liberty you should start with the CFR.

    Most of the “movers and shakers” in the Democratic and Republican parties are CFR members. And you wave PJ O’Rourke around as some “libertarian” whom we should listen?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Wow! Really? PJ is with the CFR. I don’t know what to say.

    Hey, did you hear the latest? There’s this giant susquatch that landed in a space ship in a field in Eastern Oregon. I heard it on ham radio. Maybe the CFR is behind the landing? What do you think?

    Do, da, do, doo… Do, da, do, doo

  • http://www.lpalabama.org/blog/14 paulie cannoli

    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

  • Andy

    “Wow! Really? PJ is with the CFR. I don’t know what to say.

    Hey, did you hear the latest? There’s this giant susquatch that landed in a space ship in a field in Eastern Oregon. I heard it on ham radio. Maybe the CFR is behind the landing? What do you think?

    Do, da, do, doo”¦ Do, da, do, doo”

    Nice strawman arguement. I bring up a fact and you invent a story that is completely unrelated as a means of deflecting what I said. Well, you can deflect and invent stories all you want, but I deal in FACTS.

    FACT: PJ O’Rourke is a member of the CFR.

    FACT: The CFR really exsists. Go to their website at http://www.CFR.org if you don’t believe me.

    FACT: Many of the top Democrats and Republicans are members of the CFR.

    FACT: The CFR is for global government.

    If I said that somebody was a member of the Communist Party and I had the proof to back it up would you write it off as a joke?

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Yes, I know Andy. I’m agreeing with you.

    And Mermaids still exist.

    And those who deny the Loch Ness Monster are conspiring against us who know the reeeeeeaaaaal truth.

    Goddamit Andy, some of you Libertarians are such schizos. You diss the RLC, Cato and Reason and other mainstream libertarian groups. Mercissley attack mainstream libertarians like Kinky Friedman. And then you have the audacity to turn around and attack this guy up in Montana running on the LP ticket for US Senate for being a “fringe kook.”

    Make up your minds already.

  • Andy
  • Andy

    “Yes, I know Andy. I’m agreeing with you.

    And Mermaids still exist.

    And those who deny the Loch Ness Monster are conspiring against us who know the reeeeeeaaaaal truth.”

    Why do you bring up Mermaids and the Loch Ness Monster? What does that stuff have to do with PJ O’Rourke being a member of the Council On Foreign Relations? Why is it that you REFUSE to respond to FACTS?

    “Goddamit Andy, some of you Libertarians are such schizos. You diss the RLC, Cato and Reason and other mainstream libertarian groups.”

    The RLC, Cato, and Reason all do some good things, but they have flaws as well, and if I see a flaw I’m going to point it out.

  • Andy

    “Mercissley attack mainstream libertarians like Kinky Friedman. And then you have the audacity to turn around and attack this guy up in Montana running on the LP ticket for US Senate for being a “fringe kook.”

    I haven’t attacked Kinky Friedman. I don’t really consider him to be a libertarian but to my knowledge Kinky has never claimed to be. It is quite possible that Kinky is less toxic than the Democrat and Republican in that race.

    I like that LP guy that is running in Montana.

  • Andy

    Lew Rockwell really hit the nail on the head in this article.

    Regime Libertarians
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/regime-libs.html

  • http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Eric Dondero

    Another example the liberal media HATES LIBERTARIANS.

    Check out this article by Yahoo News. Not even a mention of Libertarian Bob Smither.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061014/ap_on_el_ho/delay_s_replacement_1

    Send Yahoo a nasty email this morning. Or post a comment at Yahoo News after the article. Make sure to put in “Libertarian Bob Smither” in the heading.

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  • http://c4ss.org/ paulie cannoli

    liberal media?

    Not really.

    Statist, sure….liberal, not so much.